Discussion:
FR: L RE: GALINA WHAT ABOUT SPILEOTISSA?
(too old to reply)
Lyngos
2011-06-21 02:07:12 UTC
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http://www.melnik-bg.eu/16-eng-sightseeings.php


L.
++
2011-06-27 20:27:03 UTC
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Post by Lyngos
http://www.melnik-bg.eu/16-eng-sightseeings.php
L.
There is always the Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexius_Slav

Maybe Stefan the Bulgar has read the book on the Asenids referenced in
the Wiki article; I haven't. As you know, that so called dynasty is
problematic as to ethnicity, very interesting as to allegiances, and
had the general local tendency toward independence. I find it
interesting that he married Henry of Flanders' illegitimate daughter.
I don't know who surnamed him "Slav". I'd love to take a look at the
donation document for the monastery for which he is mostly known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_of_Flanders has info on daughter
and on his relations with other contemporaries in the Balkans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asen_dynasty on Asenids

I have not seen the icon of the Spiliotissa (in fact, the name is
intriguing as I used to belong to a speliological society for many
years for obvious reasons and would love to have an icon of the Virgin
associated with the same) for which the monastery is named, nor have I
had the pleasure, although I wish I had, of visiting that monastery,
one among many Bulgarian religious treasures awaiting renovation and
full occupancy.
SteN
2011-06-29 11:10:11 UTC
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Post by Lyngos
http://www.melnik-bg.eu/16-eng-sightseeings.php
L.
There is always the Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexius_Slav
Maybe Stefan the Bulgar has read the book on the Asenids referenced in
the Wiki article; I haven't. As you know, that so called dynasty is
problematic as to ethnicity, very interesting as to allegiances, and
had the general local tendency toward independence. I find it
interesting that he married Henry of Flanders' illegitimate daughter.
I don't know who surnamed him "Slav". I'd love to take a look at the
donation document for the monastery for which he is mostly known.
Actually, Alexius has named himself "Slav" in the very document of
donation, now in the Vatopedi monastery. The sigillum bears "Alexius,
despot Slav".
Lyngos
2011-07-01 12:27:40 UTC
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Post by SteN
Post by Lyngos
http://www.melnik-bg.eu/16-eng-sightseeings.php
L.
There is always the Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexius_Slav
Maybe Stefan the Bulgar has read the book on the Asenids referenced in
the Wiki article;  I haven't.  As you know, that so called dynasty is
problematic as to ethnicity, very interesting as to allegiances, and
had the general local tendency toward independence.  I find it
interesting that he married Henry of Flanders' illegitimate daughter.
I don't know who surnamed him "Slav".  I'd love to take a look at the
donation document for the monastery for which he is mostly known.
Actually, Alexius has named himself "Slav" in the very document of
donation, now in the Vatopedi monastery. The sigillum bears "Alexius,
despot Slav".
:))))))))))))))))) You both almost got it, but as I
said.......................almost, and since "wikipedia" was
mentioned, lets start from there.
Here how is written:
"Alexius Slav (Bulgarian: Алексий Слав, Greek: Ἀλέξιος Σθλαῦος) was a
Bulgarian noble (болярин, bolyarin) of the 12th and 13th century and a
descendant of the Asen dynasty, a nephew of the first three Asen
brothers. He was first probably the governor of the medieval Rhodopes
domain of the Second Bulgarian Empire, and then an autocrat in these
lands."

And so..............Alexius not only is associated with a dynasty --
clearly-- of Greek origins and name, but also his *original* name is S-
TH-LAVOS and not --S-L-AVOS.
The question is, WHEN the STHLAVS, became SLAVS who did it, why, who
was benefited from such chnage and so on.
Let us not forget that the original --BULGARIANS--- were not the
Turkotataromongols of Boris,Symeon,Samuel and company, but precisely
the inhabitants of North-Western Macedonia.
The timing ? Around MALALA'S writings, here they are :
http://books.google.com/books?id=n74UAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=malalas&hl=en&ei=tTv2TfjUN4u8sQPQ_pnTCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

And look in here :
Athos In the world - Μοναστήρια του Στρυμόνα και της Ροδόπης ...
ΒΙΒΛΙΟΓΡΑΦΙΑ: J. Papadopoulos - Arcadios Vatopedinos, Un acte officiel
du despote Alexis Sthlavos au sujet du couvent de Spéléotissa près de
Mélénikon, ...

www.athosmemory.com/strymonas/index.php?option=com_content&task... -
Similar
В. Златарски - История на българската държава през средните ...
... на деспотъ Алексий Славъ отъ 1220 год. е издадена отъ J. В.
Papadopoulos — Père Arcadios Vatopédinos, Un acte officiel du despote
Alexis Sthlavos. ...

www.kroraina.com/knigi/vz3/vz3_biblio.htm - Similar
В. Златарски - История на българската държава през ...
Вж. J. В. Papadopoulos, Un acte officiel du despote Alexis Sthlavos au
sujet ...

www.kroraina.com/knigi/vz3/vz3_2_1.htm - Similar

[ More results from www.kroraina.com ]
Persée : Un acte grec inédit du despote serbe Constantin Dragaş
... Un acte officiel du despote Alexis Sthlavos au sujet du couvent de
Spéléotissa près de Mélénicon dans Spisanie na bâlgarskata Akademija
na naukitê, t. ...

www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-5598_1947...
- Similar
Persée : Bulletin diplomatique
Le recueil contient, entre autres : l'acte grec du despote Alexis
Sthlavos ...

www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-55... -
Similar

[ More results from www.persee.fr ]


Of course I posted long ago this :
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14042a.htm
" The Slavonic combination of consonants sl was changed in Greek
orthography into stl, sthl, or skl. This theory was accepted by many
scholars before Safarik, as Lomonosov, Schlözer, Tatistcheff, J.
Thunmann, who in 1774 published a dissertation on the subject. It was
first advanced probably in 1679 by Hartknoch who was supported in
modern times by many scholars. Apart from the mention by Ptolemy, the
expression Slavs is not found until the sixth century. The opinion
once held by some German and many Slavonic scholars that the names
Suevi and Slav were the same and that these two peoples were
identical, although the Suevi were a branch of the Germans and the
ancestors of the present Swabians, must be absolutely rejected.
Scattered names found in old inscriptions and old charters that are
similar in sound to the word Slav must also be excluded in this
investigation......"

Now, check out this one PAGES 53 .....AND............54.

http://books.google.com/books?id=PuUPAAAAQAAJ&dq=inauthor%3A%22Constantine+Porphyrogenitus%22&q=slavs#v=onepage&q=sclavenia&f=false

It is becoming clear that the arrival of SLAVS in Peloponnesos that
mainly was based upon Porfyrogennitus' word ES-THL-AVOTHH, in
combination with page 54 where the FACE appeared as ES-THL-AVOMENON,
clearly...........................CLEARLY indicates not any kind of
SLAV arrival, but a land AND a person's face taht BOTH WERE SUFFERING!

Now, add Malala's naming of the Western Greeks as descendants of
Achilles Myrmidons and his naming of them as BULGARIANS, take in
consideration the VLACHIAN connections of the ASSEN clan, read
PACHYMERES page --83-- where one reads :

τους γαρ το παλαιον Ελληνας,ους Αχιλλευς ηγε,Μεγαλοβλαχιτας καλων
επεφερετο

because those ancient Hellenes that Achilles was guiding,now were
called MEGALOVLACHITES.

quae Graeci olim generis et nominis Achille imperatore militavit nunc
Megaloblachitae vocabantur


Slavs that are not Slavs, Bulgarians that are not Turkotataromongols,
everything associated with North-Western Greece, with the Epirus
Despotate,with Illyricum, with Justiniana Prima, with Pelagonia, with
Alexius the STHLAV, with the Palaeologi, with Meleniko, with the
Dragas family,with VLACHS and MEGALOVLACHS, and so
on...................

Someone was serving us the WRONG history books for many years now, I
would say !


L.
Lyngos
2011-07-02 15:23:02 UTC
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And in case you can not open some of them, here a little of help:



http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-5598_1947_num_5_1_954

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-5598_1949_num_7_1_1004



L.
++
2011-07-04 20:32:56 UTC
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http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-559...
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-559...
L.
I am actually interested in seeing whether the Sipiotissa icons are
the same or different in different monasteries.

As for the Σθλαῦος Sthlauos, I think there is a passage in Homer
somewhere talking about "Σθλαῦος and other people (laoi)" but that is
uninteresting
Lyngos
2011-07-05 12:08:38 UTC
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http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-559...
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-559...
L.
I am actually interested in seeing whether the Sipiotissa icons are
the same or different in different monasteries.
As for the Σθλαῦος Sthlauos, I think there is a passage in Homer
somewhere talking about "Σθλαῦος and other people (laoi)" but that is
uninteresting
And obliously you missed the VLACHIAN connection


L.
++
2011-07-16 00:34:53 UTC
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Post by Lyngos
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http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-559...
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rebyz_0766-559...
L.
I am actually interested in seeing whether the Sipiotissa icons are
the same or different in different monasteries.
As for the Σθλαῦος Sthlauos, I think there is a passage in Homer
somewhere talking about "Σθλαῦος and other people (laoi)" but that is
uninteresting
And obliously you missed the VLACHIAN connection
L.
The majority of the links you provided just plain don't work. Among
the links you provided that do work, you failed to cite which page and
were too lazy to cite the copyright free passages of any, to translate
any of these passages otherwise initiate a rational discussion. There
are various cave monasteries worldwide. St. Thekla's cave, 1st
century was the beginning of a monastery and typical of this monastery
type, Considering its location, you cannot claim this as a Vlach
invention even though the earliest of the monasteries with miraculous
icons to the Virgin bearing the name Spiliotissa is in Albania in an
area which is inhabited to some part by Aroumani, it is not considered
specifically Aroumanian. The Assenids are not necessarily Vlach, that
is only one theory not yet proven. Emp. Constantine Por. is in
English in an acclaimed translation by Peter Charanas (he told me it
was a collaborative effort of himself and numerous graduate students
from his seminar at Rutgers - he was very proud of how it turned
out.). Take a look at it.

++
2011-06-28 00:08:21 UTC
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Post by Lyngos
http://www.melnik-bg.eu/16-eng-sightseeings.php
L.
The Panaghia Spiliotissa I only previously knew from Epirus and Corfu
but there are a few other famous ones. THe earliest one is probably
the one in the Epirus. I quickly looked on the web (hey, it was
dinner time) and here are some results. The reason why there would be
one in Melnik, by the way is because Melnik in the 19th and 20th
centuries was VLach, Greek, Macedonian, Roma, i.e., very mixed, but
with a particularly large Greek population. There are probably many
others, but these are the only ones I heard of

The Megalospiliotissa icon I could not find online, meither have I
seen it but from one image online, it may be a Portatissa, also a
miracle icon even in copies

Panaghia Spiliotissa
Zakynthos
Monastery of Panaghia Spiliotissa/of Spilia (Virgin Mary): The
monastery of Panaghia of Spilia (which means “of the cave”) is located
in the north of the island, in the small village of Orthonies. Built
in the 16th century, on the edge of the cliff, it is surrounded by a
beautiful green environment with rich vegetation. Its interior is not
accessible.
Corfu
Panaghia Spiliotissa
The church was built in 1577 and became the Cathedral church of the
city since 1841. It is situated at the southwest, above the Old Port.
Since its original construction, the church was renovated both
externally and internally. Among the numerous icons that the church
hosts, distinguished those of M. Damaskinos (16th c) and E. Tzanne
(17th c), but the most respective and the oldest on (15th c) is that
of Panaghia Dimosiana, which is painted both sides. At Metropolis
(Cathedral church) are placed the relics of St. Theodora Augousta
( Empress Thedora of Byzantion).
Peza village, Heraklion Crete
The Monastery of Panaghia Spiliotissa is situated at Aghios Vasilios
near the church of Aghios Ioannis, within a landscape with luxurious
green and current water.
Epiris MONASTERY OF PANAGHIA CHRYSSOSPILIOTISSA
http://www.womanway.eu/studies/files/panaghia_teiep_en.pdf
Close to the village Gourgiana in Tzoumerka, there is the monastery of
Panaghia
Chryssospiliotissa [26], situated in a difficult to reach, but
otherwise impressive
location, which has probably been sacred since ancient times. [24]
The monastery is of great interest since it is not only picturesque,
but also
important in terms of typology. Today, only the church remains from
the initial cluster
of buildings. It is dedicated to the Nativity of Virgin Mary and it
was built in the 11th
century [9]. However, it acquired its present form after the
renovation which took place
in 1663, according to an inscription placed in a conch on the south
wall.
Close to the sanctuary, there is a cave where the icon of Virgin Mary
was found.
The recovery of the icon was interpreted as a miracle and lead to the
foundation of the
monastery. “In a case that the residents of Gourgiana were being
persecuted, they hid
the icon of Virgin Mary in the cave of Zografos, which was difficult
to find, in order to
save it. Many years later, when the icon was recovered, their
descendants built a
monastery there that they dedicated to Panaghia the Spiliotissa
(Virgin Mary of the
Cave). Today, the icon is kept in the “Mega Spilaio” (the Great Cavern
in Kalavryta)
for safety reasons, since it is considered to be one of the 5 icons
created by Apostle
Lukas, and it is called “Megalospiliotissa”. It was very difficult for
raiders to find the
entrance of the cave since it was a really small hole, covered with
holm-oaks, and that
was why it was used as a shelter by people leaving nearby…” [25]. It
was in this cave
that the historical icon was found by a shepherd (according to some
others, a group of
shepherds) from the village Platanoussa, which lies exactly on the
opposite mountain.
According to tradition17, for a long time, shepherds from Platanoussa
could see a
strange light shining during the night exactly where the hidden icon
was found, and
their curiosity lead to the recovery of the icon. A small church,
which was later
expanded and became the monastery, was built there.
The tradition relevant to the foundation of the church was depicted in
a portable
icon that used to embellish the wooden icon stand, which was a unique
piece of
fretwork. It was the icon of the Nativity of Virgin Mary, created in
1831, for which the
academic P. Vokotopoulos [27] wrote that it was of inferior artistic
interest compared
to the rest of the icons on the icon stand, however, its worship was
one of the most
important reasons that lead the faithful to this difficult to reach
monastery. Nowadays,
on this artistically unique, wooden icon stand one can see icons
created in recent years.
Even today, people attribute numerous miracles to it, and they turn to
it to pray in
every difficult moment of their life, having faith in it with all the
strength of their soul.
Saint Spiliotissa / Nisia Ionioy / Corcyra / Garítsa/ Greece
On Mitropolis Square, near the Old Port. The 16th Century church
contains the remains of Theodora, 9th Century Byzantine Empress
PANAGIA SPILIOTISSA(or Chrysospiliotissa) Athens, Greece

Above the Dionysus Theater, during the Byzantine Era, a cave (spilia)
housed for the first time the church of Panagia Spilotissa. In ancient
times the cave was a Dionysus temple built by Thrasyllos in 320 BC and
two Ionian pillars are still remaining from this temple.

Access to the church is possible through a difficult path that begins
at the highest point of Dionysus Theater. The church interior is one
of the quaintest representatives of the “alternative” places to
worship that started to emerge in Athens during the 6th Century A.D.,
following the decrees sent by the Byzantine Emperors.
Church of Panagia Spiliotissa
At the Archaeological Area of Theater of Dionysus
10555 Athens (Greece)
Tel. +30 210 - 3224625

Panagia Spiliotisa Melnik, Pirin Mountains
The fortified wall and the “Holy Virgin Spiliotisa” Monastery on the
Saint Nikola Hill (XIII century)
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