Tsar Samuil's burial

Zhivko The Tatar> According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was
Zhivko The Tatar> buried wrapped in purple cloth, which according to

<drivel snipped>

Hey, Yugoslav piece of shit, how is life in the nuthouse? I mean, it's
good that they let patients play on computers and even give them access
to the Internet. Yes, that's good for the psychiatric patients like you,
but not so good for people that come across your drivel while reading
s.c.b.

Please concentrate on taking your pills regularly and try to stay away
from the computer: it's not good for your health.

As for the attire of the Bulgarian kings, including Samuil, it was
purple. But ancient Macedonian kings - like all other Greek kings - had
yellow attire because they were all homosexuals like Alexandros The
Great.

So it's quite normal that the Bulgarian king Samuel was buried in purple
clothes.

g***@yahoo.com

2005-01-09 18:04:56 UTC

What exactly this has to do with soc.culture.greek?

The same as a previous trolling of yours had with soc.culture.bulgaria.

You're just crossposting with the hope to troll on more toes, pal.

Get a life. Try to meet living people, to have some relations with
them. Helps sometimes.

Or, do whatever else, but give the normal people a break. Harassment
may be the only form of communication you are able to, but other people
don't like it, and don't need it. Go learn being normal.

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was buried in the
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under greek
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name of Nicholas
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body prior to
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he carried out
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in purple
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It is known
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but "coincides" with the
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was purple, as
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the "Macedonian
Emperor" :-)

ivaylo

2005-01-10 05:31:22 UTC

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was buried in the
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under greek
juristiction).

Very interesting, I thought you Macedonists didn't believe in "Bulgarian
sources". Why the change of heart?

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
They have cited some greek professor by the name of Nicholas
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body prior to
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he carried out
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in purple
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It is known

Who told that this "is known"?

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but "coincides" with the
ancient Macedonian royalty,

It "coincides" with the practice in pretty much all of Europe's royals in XI
c AD (not to mention the Roman Empire centuries earlier). On the other hand
I don't remember Macedonian royals using the color. In any case the first
record of "royal purple" is from the Phoenicians. Or are they the "true
Macedonians"?

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
whose formal, ceremonial wear was purple, as
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian propagandists. :-)

The title "tsar" is derivative from the Latin Caesar (through the Greek
Kaisar). Therefore, this proves that tsar Samuil was a descendant of the
true Roman (i.e. he was Vlach). It also proves that his state was Vlach
(likewise with the Bulgarian "tsars" and their state).

Food for thought for the relentless moron Zhivko (a lost cause since you
need a head to have a thought). By the way what is the root of your ancient
Macedonian name?

Ivaylo

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from Bulgaria, in
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the "Macedonian
Emperor" :-)

Pres. George W. Bush

2005-01-10 14:52:14 UTC

Post by ivaylo
The title "tsar" is derivative from the Latin Caesar (through the Greek
Kaisar). Therefore, this proves that tsar Samuil was a descendant of the
true Roman (i.e. he was Vlach). It also proves that his state was Vlach
(likewise with the Bulgarian "tsars" and their state).
Food for thought for the relentless moron Zhivko (a lost cause since you
need a head to have a thought). By the way what is the root of your ancient
Macedonian name?
Ivaylo

I don't think this alone "proves" anything. And the issue is not whether
the local people are Vlach, Macedonian or whatever. The issues are: 1) Are
the local people of Macedonia Bulgarian - NO! 2) Are the local people of
Macedonia Greek - Again, NO!

--
Regards,

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

Dorian West

2005-01-10 15:53:18 UTC

ancient

Post by ivaylo
Macedonian name?
Ivaylo

The local people of Macedonia are Greek and nothing but Greek and visiting
nationals with appropriate paper-work. You need to understand that clearly.
You can't go around renaming your country and magically assume the identity
of something you are not. You are Slaves of the Turk fucked species -
MongolSlaves so shy blame the Greeks if your whore women gave themselves
freely to Turkish captains and beget bastard sons??? This an issue between
you and those cowards that bore you, you know the ones that raised the
Bulgarian flag in Skopje once the Axis forces arrived - no frigging backbone
or character whatsoever. Gutless and slimy to the core.

Yannis the Macedonian

2005-01-10 17:32:54 UTC

Post by Pres. George W. Bush
I don't think this alone "proves" anything. And the issue is not whether
the local people are Vlach, Macedonian or whatever. The issues are: 1) Are
the local people of Macedonia Bulgarian - NO! 2) Are the local people of
Macedonia Greek - Again, NO!

Have you seen the image with the word "Voulgaroi" over Samouil's soldiears
?? Do you know what Basill's the 2nd, nickname was ??
Istor
Macedonia, Greece

Nikolay Sarmadzhiev

2005-01-11 22:21:07 UTC

Post by Yannis the Macedonian
Have you seen the image with the word "Voulgaroi" over Samouil's soldiears
?? Do you know what Basill's the 2nd, nickname was ??
Istor
Macedonia, Greece

Yannis,
Come on, of course because they whanted to deceive Zhivko (and other
antichari) 1000 years later. They were part of the world conspiracy.

2005-01-10 06:17:56 UTC

More Tsar Samuel:

St. John Vladimir of Serbia

Holy martyr John Vladimir, King of Serbia belonged to a pious royal
family, which owned principalities of Zahumlje and Provala. He ascended
the Serbian throne in the second half of the tenth century and ruled in
Zeta and other regions in Illiria and Dalmatia. Since his early
childhood, St. John Vladimir had been blessed with the spiritual gifts
of meekness, humility, prudent taciturnity, fear of God, chastity and
disregard of material comforts. He mastered military science and became
a distinguished military leader, yet remained an example of piety, knew
the Holy Scripture and was merciful to the poor. Thanks to these
virtues, he brought many Bogomils (the heretics) back to Orthodoxy. As a
sovereign, he was revered by all because of his wisdom and goodness. To
propagate Orthodox faith and to eradicate heresies, St. John Vladimir
sent catechists to educate people.

Many hospitals, guest houses and monasteries were opened during the
reign of St. John Vladimir. Living the life that pleased God so much,
King John Vladimir had to unceasingly struggle against external enemies
(Samuel, Tsar of Bulgaria and Basil II the Macedonian, Emperor of
Byzantium), as well as internal foes (the Bogomils).

One day, Tsar Samuel attacked Serbia with a large army. King John
Vladimir avoided battle and stationed his squad on Mount Oblik
(Kosogor), which was very high. His soldiers suffered there from
poisonous snakes. St. John Vladimir tearfully prayed to God for help,
and God accepted his prayer. For some time Tsar Samuel was unsuccessful
in attacking the besieged Serbs, but a local prince betrayed them. When
it became clear to the Serbs that they would lose anyway, St. John
Vladimir assembled his men and said, "It is better for me to lay down my
life for you and willingly accept death, than for you to die of hunger
and by the sword." Having said this, he bid farewell to everybody and
surrendered to Tsar Samuel, who cast him into prison in the town of
Presna. While in prison, St. John Vladimir prayed unceasingly, and an
angel of God was sent to him to strengthen his spirit and to foretell
his release and a martyr's death afterwards.

Tsar Samuel had a daughter by the name of Kosara (Theodora), who was
exceptionally merciful and had the habit of visiting prisons. She fell
in love with the young and handsome prisoner and persuaded her father,
who granted her every wish, into releasing him. Tsar Samuel let his
daughter marry John Vladimir and restored him to his throne.

Upon returning home, King John Vladimir suggested to Theodora that they
live in chastity so as to follow a commandment of Christ (Mat. 19:10-12;
1 Cor. 7:29). Theodora agreed, and so they lived in love for God and
ruled their people in fear of God. In the meantime, major changes took
place in the Bulgarian Kingdom. Tsar Samuel died, his son Gabriel was
killed, and the throne was taken over by Vladislav, who disliked John
Vladimir. The latter had a vision of an eagle carrying a cross. The bird
glided above the forest and then went down and laid the cross on the
ground. The blessed king rendered homage to the cross and later built a
church on that spot, where he prayed day and night awaiting his martyrdom.

Tsar Vladislav conceived a plan to annex the estates of John Vladimir.
With this in mind, he summoned John Vladimir with the alleged purpose of
negotiating an agreement. Theodora, being apprehensive, tried to keep
him from going, yet he did not listen and left for Presna. When Tsar
Vladislav saw the king approaching, he drew his sword and struck John
Vladimir, but did not injure him. The saint said to him, "You want to
kill me, brother, but you can't." He handed Vladislav his sword, saying,
"Take it and kill me. I am ready to die, as were Isaac and Abel."
Vladislav, his mind obscured, grabbed the sword and cut off the martyr's
head. Beheaded, John Vladimir took up his own head, mounted his horse
and rode up to a church, saying, "Lord, into Thy hands I commend my
spirit." The killer ran away in horror. In this way, Blessed John
Vladimir became a martyr on May 22, 1015.

One could see a miraculous light above his grave on the first night
after his burial. This frightened the Bulgarian Tsar so much that he
handed over the body of the saint to his wife Theodora to bury him in a
place of her choice. The widow placed the body of her husband in the
church of the Most Holy Virgin Mary in Kraina. Theodora then took the
veil and spent the rest of her days near the grave of her beloved
husband. Upon her repose, she was buried next to him.

Tsar Vladislav died during the assault on the Serbian town of Drac in
early 1018. A warrior resembling St. John Vladimir suddenly appeared in
front of him, and when the latter broke into run in horror, an angel of
God struck him down.

Around 1215 the holy relics of John Vladimir were transferred to the
town of Drac and later to St. John's Monastery in Albania. In this
cloister dedicated to the martyred king, numerous miracles occurred.
Serbs, Albanians and Greeks paid tribute to the memory of John Vladimir,
calling him wonderworker and myrrh-giver. A service to the crowned
martyr and his biography were written, first in Serbian and then in
Greek. The Serbian text was lost later on, and monks Luke and Parthenius
of Hilandarion Monastery translated the service and the biography from
Greek back into Serbian. Metropolitan Michael of Belgrade included them
into Serbliak in 1861. In 1925 a church in honor of the Holy Martyr John
Vladimir was built in the monastery of St. Nahum on Lake Ohrid.

Speaking on icons, the saint is often depicted crowned, with a cross in
the right hand and his own head in the left.

http://www.russia-hc.ru/eng/religion/legend/JohnVlad.cfm

ivaylo

2005-01-10 09:49:30 UTC

St. John Vladimir of Serbia
Holy martyr John Vladimir, King of Serbia belonged to a pious royal
family, which owned principalities of Zahumlje and Provala. He ascended
the Serbian throne in the second half of the tenth century and ruled in
Zeta and other regions in Illiria and Dalmatia.

Can you remind me what is this "Kingdom of Serbia" in the tenth century?
And more to the point, how can you be a Christian martyr if you die in the
hands of another Christian and for non-religious reasons (trying to steal
someone else's land doesn't strike me as a religious activity)?

Post by ++
Since his early childhood, St. John Vladimir had been blessed with the
spiritual gifts of meekness, humility, prudent taciturnity, fear of God,
chastity and disregard of material comforts. He mastered military science
and became a distinguished military leader, yet remained an example of
piety, knew the Holy Scripture and was merciful to the poor. Thanks to
these virtues, he brought many Bogomils (the heretics) back to Orthodoxy.
As a sovereign, he was revered by all because of his wisdom and goodness.
To propagate Orthodox faith and to eradicate heresies, St. John Vladimir
sent catechists to educate people.
Many hospitals, guest houses and monasteries were opened during the reign
of St. John Vladimir. Living the life that pleased God so much, King John
Vladimir had to unceasingly struggle against external enemies (Samuel,
Tsar of Bulgaria and Basil II the Macedonian, Emperor of Byzantium), as
well as internal foes (the Bogomils).
One day, Tsar Samuel attacked Serbia with a large army. King John Vladimir
avoided battle and stationed his squad on Mount Oblik (Kosogor), which was
very high. His soldiers suffered there from poisonous snakes. St. John
Vladimir tearfully prayed to God for help, and God accepted his prayer.
For some time Tsar Samuel was unsuccessful in attacking the besieged
Serbs, but a local prince betrayed them. When it became clear to the Serbs
that they would lose anyway, St. John Vladimir assembled his men and said,
"It is better for me to lay down my life for you and willingly accept
death, than for you to die of hunger and by the sword." Having said this,
he bid farewell to everybody and surrendered to Tsar Samuel, who cast him
into prison in the town of Presna. While in prison, St. John Vladimir
prayed unceasingly, and an angel of God was sent to him to strengthen his
spirit and to foretell his release and a martyr's death afterwards.
Tsar Samuel had a daughter by the name of Kosara (Theodora), who was
exceptionally merciful and had the habit of visiting prisons. She fell in
love with the young and handsome prisoner and persuaded her father, who
granted her every wish, into releasing him. Tsar Samuel let his daughter
marry John Vladimir and restored him to his throne.
Upon returning home, King John Vladimir suggested to Theodora that they
live in chastity so as to follow a commandment of Christ (Mat. 19:10-12; 1
Cor. 7:29). Theodora agreed, and so they lived in love for God and ruled
their people in fear of God. In the meantime, major changes took place in
the Bulgarian Kingdom. Tsar Samuel died, his son Gabriel was killed, and
the throne was taken over by Vladislav, who disliked John Vladimir. The
latter had a vision of an eagle carrying a cross. The bird glided above
the forest and then went down and laid the cross on the ground. The
blessed king rendered homage to the cross and later built a church on that
spot, where he prayed day and night awaiting his martyrdom.
Tsar Vladislav conceived a plan to annex the estates of John Vladimir.
With this in mind, he summoned John Vladimir with the alleged purpose of
negotiating an agreement. Theodora, being apprehensive, tried to keep him
from going, yet he did not listen and left for Presna. When Tsar Vladislav
saw the king approaching, he drew his sword and struck John Vladimir, but
did not injure him. The saint said to him, "You want to kill me, brother,
but you can't." He handed Vladislav his sword, saying, "Take it and kill
me. I am ready to die, as were Isaac and Abel." Vladislav, his mind
obscured, grabbed the sword and cut off the martyr's head. Beheaded, John
Vladimir took up his own head, mounted his horse and rode up to a church,
saying, "Lord, into Thy hands I commend my spirit." The killer ran away in
horror. In this way, Blessed John Vladimir became a martyr on May 22,
1015.
One could see a miraculous light above his grave on the first night after
his burial. This frightened the Bulgarian Tsar so much that he handed over
the body of the saint to his wife Theodora to bury him in a place of her
choice. The widow placed the body of her husband in the church of the Most
Holy Virgin Mary in Kraina. Theodora then took the veil and spent the rest
of her days near the grave of her beloved husband. Upon her repose, she
was buried next to him.
Tsar Vladislav died during the assault on the Serbian town of Drac in
early 1018. A warrior resembling St. John Vladimir suddenly appeared in
front of him, and when the latter broke into run in horror, an angel of
God struck him down.
Around 1215 the holy relics of John Vladimir were transferred to the town
of Drac and later to St. John's Monastery in Albania. In this cloister
dedicated to the martyred king, numerous miracles occurred. Serbs,
Albanians and Greeks paid tribute to the memory of John Vladimir, calling
him wonderworker and myrrh-giver. A service to the crowned martyr and his
biography were written, first in Serbian and then in Greek. The Serbian
text was lost later on, and monks Luke and Parthenius of Hilandarion
Monastery translated the service and the biography from Greek back into
Serbian. Metropolitan Michael of Belgrade included them into Serbliak in
1861. In 1925 a church in honor of the Holy Martyr John Vladimir was built
in the monastery of St. Nahum on Lake Ohrid.
Speaking on icons, the saint is often depicted crowned, with a cross in
the right hand and his own head in the left.
http://www.russia-hc.ru/eng/religion/legend/JohnVlad.cfm

Pres. George W. Bush

2005-01-10 14:56:26 UTC

Post by ivaylo
Can you remind me what is this "Kingdom of Serbia" in the tenth century?
And more to the point, how can you be a Christian martyr if you die in the
hands of another Christian and for non-religious reasons (trying to steal
someone else's land doesn't strike me as a religious activity)?

I agree.

--
Regards,

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

Dorian West

2005-01-10 15:55:37 UTC

Post by Pres. George W. Bush

I agree.

Then why do you wish to steal Macedonia from Greece? Why not answer question
1 of mine below? Oops, silly me, I have answered it for you. Hehehehe!!!

1. Why did the Yugoslavs rename their province Vardaska, adjoining the Greek
province of Macedonia, to Makedonija (Macedonia in English) on 2nd August
1944? In addition, why did they consider it necessary to kill almost 200,000
Greeks in their failed 1944-49 effort of conquering Greece and especially
the beloved Greek province of Macedonia - the Heart of Greece?

ANSWER TO GET YOU STARTED: "I shall not indulge in a lecture on the ancient
identity of the Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the
Great, but the Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they
launched in the early days of the dispute... "Nor shall I engage in a
lecture on the falsification of the history of Slavo-Macedonia since 1944,
although that, too, as much hard factual content. I simply remind the House
that Tito's renaming of Vardar Banovina as the Republic of Macedonia in 1944
was a political statement. More than that, it was a territorial claim. It
laid claim to territory in Greece and in Bulgaria. Notably, the objective
was the warm water port of Salonika on the Aegean."

[Mr. Edward O'Hara of the British Parliament]

2005-01-11 08:13:53 UTC

Post by ivaylo

Dear Ivaylo,

All these things can be because of Serbian historic revisionism.

George S. Tsapanos

2005-01-11 13:32:59 UTC

Dear Ivaylo,>
All these things can be because of Serbian historic revisionism.>

Here Galina, something for you and those wanting to be "Makedonians".I will
"revise" Alexander's history the Vlachian way.ONLY NATIVES from around ERIGON,
EORDAICUS, PELIUM, are allowed to participate in such revision.

ARRIAN
THE CAMPAIGNS
BOOK ONE-5

"..........Alexander now proceeded along the river ERIGON on his way to PELIUM,
a town which had been occupied by CLEITUS as the most defencive in the
DISTRICT.
Arriving there, he halted by the river EORDAICUS with the intention of making
his assault the following day.The town was ringed with commanding heights,
thickly wooded, which were held by CLEITUS' troops, who were thus enabled, in
the event of an assault, to ATTACK THE MACEDONIAN FORCES from every side.
GLAUCIAS, the KING of the TAULANTIANS, had not yet come upon the scene.
ALEXANDER, however, lost no time, and the enemy, on his approach to the town,
having sacrificed THREE BOYS, THREE GIRLS, AND THREE BLACK RAMS, made a
movement as if with the intention of engaging the MACEDONIANS at close
quarters; but no sooner had the latter come within striking distance that they
abandoned their defensive positions, strong though they were.
THE BODIES OF THE VICTIMS THEY HAD SACRIFICED WERE FOUND STILL LYING WHERE THEY
FELL.............................
.............................................................
Seing the MACEDONIAN troops crossing the river, THE NATIVES moved down from the
high ground with the intention of FALLING UPON ALEXANDER'S PARTY WHICH WOULD
FORM THE REAR OF THE ARMY AS IT
WITHDREW;............................................>

Regards to all ..................L.
"Vlachs, The Autochthonous
Of the Hellenic Peninsula".

June R Harton

2005-01-12 06:11:23 UTC

"++" <***@erols.com> wrote in message news:G7Odnd2-JtYlF37cRVn-***@rcn.net...

Schneider, what about your historic revisionism?

Folks, you only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic majority,
like that Bulgar poster ilindra, and Nicholov and Slavko are simply West
Bulgarians and have no connection to 'Macedonia' anything:

In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

And here:

Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......

http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html

Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).

And here:

For fair use only.

http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...

Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.

The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"

Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV

This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,

and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "

And here:

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm

http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm

And finally here

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm

http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid

from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!

stardimi

2005-01-11 18:27:06 UTC

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from Bulgaria, in
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the

"Macedonian

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Emperor" :-)

St. John Vladimir of Serbia
Holy martyr John Vladimir, King of Serbia belonged to a pious royal
family, which owned principalities of Zahumlje and Provala. He

ascended

Post by ++
the Serbian throne in the second half of the tenth century and ruled in
Zeta and other regions in Illiria and Dalmatia. Since his early
childhood, St. John Vladimir had been blessed with the spiritual gifts
of meekness, humility, prudent taciturnity, fear of God, chastity and
disregard of material comforts. He mastered military science and became
a distinguished military leader, yet remained an example of piety, knew
the Holy Scripture and was merciful to the poor. Thanks to these
virtues, he brought many Bogomils (the heretics) back to Orthodoxy. As a
sovereign, he was revered by all because of his wisdom and goodness. To
propagate Orthodox faith and to eradicate heresies, St. John Vladimir
sent catechists to educate people.
Many hospitals, guest houses and monasteries were opened during the
reign of St. John Vladimir. Living the life that pleased God so much,
King John Vladimir had to unceasingly struggle against external enemies
(Samuel, Tsar of Bulgaria and Basil II the Macedonian, Emperor of
Byzantium), as well as internal foes (the Bogomils).
One day, Tsar Samuel attacked Serbia with a large army. King John
Vladimir avoided battle and stationed his squad on Mount Oblik
(Kosogor), which was very high. His soldiers suffered there from
poisonous snakes. St. John Vladimir tearfully prayed to God for help,
and God accepted his prayer. For some time Tsar Samuel was

unsuccessful

Post by ++
in attacking the besieged Serbs, but a local prince betrayed them. When
it became clear to the Serbs that they would lose anyway, St. John
Vladimir assembled his men and said, "It is better for me to lay down my
life for you and willingly accept death, than for you to die of hunger
and by the sword." Having said this, he bid farewell to everybody and
surrendered to Tsar Samuel, who cast him into prison in the town of
Presna. While in prison, St. John Vladimir prayed unceasingly, and an
angel of God was sent to him to strengthen his spirit and to foretell
his release and a martyr's death afterwards.
Tsar Samuel had a daughter by the name of Kosara (Theodora), who was
exceptionally merciful and had the habit of visiting prisons. She fell
in love with the young and handsome prisoner and persuaded her

father,

Post by ++
who granted her every wish, into releasing him. Tsar Samuel let his
daughter marry John Vladimir and restored him to his throne.
Upon returning home, King John Vladimir suggested to Theodora that they
live in chastity so as to follow a commandment of Christ (Mat.

19:10-12;

Post by ++
1 Cor. 7:29). Theodora agreed, and so they lived in love for God and
ruled their people in fear of God. In the meantime, major changes took
place in the Bulgarian Kingdom. Tsar Samuel died, his son Gabriel was
killed, and the throne was taken over by Vladislav, who disliked John
Vladimir. The latter had a vision of an eagle carrying a cross. The bird
glided above the forest and then went down and laid the cross on the
ground. The blessed king rendered homage to the cross and later built a
church on that spot, where he prayed day and night awaiting his martyrdom.
Tsar Vladislav conceived a plan to annex the estates of John

Vladimir.

Post by ++
With this in mind, he summoned John Vladimir with the alleged purpose of
negotiating an agreement. Theodora, being apprehensive, tried to keep
him from going, yet he did not listen and left for Presna. When Tsar
Vladislav saw the king approaching, he drew his sword and struck John
Vladimir, but did not injure him. The saint said to him, "You want to
kill me, brother, but you can't." He handed Vladislav his sword, saying,
"Take it and kill me. I am ready to die, as were Isaac and Abel."
Vladislav, his mind obscured, grabbed the sword and cut off the martyr's
head. Beheaded, John Vladimir took up his own head, mounted his horse
and rode up to a church, saying, "Lord, into Thy hands I commend my
spirit." The killer ran away in horror. In this way, Blessed John
Vladimir became a martyr on May 22, 1015.
One could see a miraculous light above his grave on the first night
after his burial. This frightened the Bulgarian Tsar so much that he
handed over the body of the saint to his wife Theodora to bury him in a
place of her choice. The widow placed the body of her husband in the
church of the Most Holy Virgin Mary in Kraina. Theodora then took the
veil and spent the rest of her days near the grave of her beloved
husband. Upon her repose, she was buried next to him.
Tsar Vladislav died during the assault on the Serbian town of Drac in
early 1018. A warrior resembling St. John Vladimir suddenly appeared in
front of him, and when the latter broke into run in horror, an angel of
God struck him down.
Around 1215 the holy relics of John Vladimir were transferred to the
town of Drac and later to St. John's Monastery in Albania. In this
cloister dedicated to the martyred king, numerous miracles occurred.
Serbs, Albanians and Greeks paid tribute to the memory of John

Vladimir,

Post by ++
calling him wonderworker and myrrh-giver. A service to the crowned
martyr and his biography were written, first in Serbian and then in
Greek. The Serbian text was lost later on, and monks Luke and

Parthenius

Post by ++
of Hilandarion Monastery translated the service and the biography from
Greek back into Serbian. Metropolitan Michael of Belgrade included them
into Serbliak in 1861. In 1925 a church in honor of the Holy Martyr John
Vladimir was built in the monastery of St. Nahum on Lake Ohrid.
Speaking on icons, the saint is often depicted crowned, with a cross in
the right hand and his own head in the left.
http://www.russia-hc.ru/eng/religion/legend/JohnVlad.cfm

bloody hell, I'm impressed. These people whenever they prey someone
comes for help! It's like a red line to god. Jeeeesus Halleluiah!!!!

stardimi

2005-01-10 14:29:00 UTC

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the "Macedonian
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Zhivko Apostolovski

2005-01-10 20:40:19 UTC

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was buried

in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name of

Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he carried

out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It is

known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but "coincides"

with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the "Macedonian
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Just out of curuiosity, why do you ask me such a question?

Jason K. Lambrou

2005-01-10 22:16:40 UTC

Zhivko Apostolovski wrote:
Just answer tyhe question gifto goat herder,BTW WTFI is a Zhivko

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was buried

in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name of

Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he carried

out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It is

known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but "coincides"

with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the "Macedonian
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Just out of curuiosity, why do you ask me such a question?

stardimi

2005-01-10 23:07:09 UTC

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was buried

in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name of

Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he carried

out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It is

known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but

"coincides"

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the

"Macedonian

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Just out of curuiosity, why do you ask me such a question?

Why is it so difficult to answer that? Do you have a complex with your
own perception of who you are?

I consider myself Greek, I have a Greek name, I speak Greek, you see...
easy! Now you try. Do you consider yourself a Slav? Are you proud to be
a Slav? Yes or no? Simple answer...

Zhivko Apostolovski

2005-01-11 13:52:31 UTC

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was

buried

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body

prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
to

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he

carried

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but

"coincides"

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was

purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
as

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the

"Macedonian

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Just out of curuiosity, why do you ask me such a question?

Why is it so difficult to answer that? Do you have a complex with your
own perception of who you are?

I have absolutely no trouble answering your question. I am a Macedonian.....
with no other appelations, ...unlike some of the artificial "Greeks"
(grkomani) who claim dual identities (Macedonian and Greek, or Vlach and
Greek, or ?(choose any other ethnicity) and Greek). I speak Macedonian and I
have a Macedonian name. ...Easy! :-)

I am still puzzled why did you ask me the "slav" question? And even more
puzzled why you failed to answer why you asked me that question?

As for your declaration, good for you. :-), but it didn't interest me, nor
does it interest me now.

Now, will you be brave enough to answer my question? :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
I consider myself Greek, I have a Greek name, I speak Greek, you see...
easy! Now you try. Do you consider yourself a Slav? Are you proud to be
a Slav? Yes or no? Simple answer...

stardimi

2005-01-11 14:36:24 UTC

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was

buried

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body

prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
to

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he

carried

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for

royalty. It

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
is

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but

"coincides"

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was

purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
as

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the

"Macedonian

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Just out of curuiosity, why do you ask me such a question?

Why is it so difficult to answer that? Do you have a complex with your
own perception of who you are?

I have absolutely no trouble answering your question. I am a

Macedonian.....

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
with no other appelations,

You seemed to hesitate a bit. That's all. So why are you called Zhivko
Apostolovski? This is a name that sounds slavic to me? Apart from the
"Apostolos" bit which is Greek?

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
I speak Macedonian and I
have a Macedonian name. ...Easy! :-)

When you say you speak Macedonian you mean the language of Alexander
the Great?
Just curious... because from what I have verified myself, today's Greek
language is very close to Helenistic which is the language which
prevailed in Alexander's empire. Do you understand Greek?

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
I am still puzzled why did you ask me the "slav" question? And even more
puzzled why you failed to answer why you asked me that question?

If you are "puzzled" maybe you are being a bit hypocritical because it
is natural for someone to assume that a person who has a slavic name
and speaks a slavic dialect and most importantly feels at home with it,
to be a proud slav.

I don't have any problems with slavs, in fact I appreciate proud people
regardless of where they come from. But in this case we seem to have a
"curiocity"

Jason K. Lambrou

2005-01-11 16:04:49 UTC

Zhivko Apostolovski wrote:
WTFI a "ZHIVKO" answer that one first

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was

buried

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body

prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
to

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he

carried

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but

"coincides"

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was

purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
as

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the

"Macedonian

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Just out of curuiosity, why do you ask me such a question?

Why is it so difficult to answer that? Do you have a complex with your
own perception of who you are?

I have absolutely no trouble answering your question. I am a Macedonian.....
with no other appelations, ...unlike some of the artificial "Greeks"
(grkomani) who claim dual identities (Macedonian and Greek, or Vlach and
Greek, or ?(choose any other ethnicity) and Greek). I speak Macedonian and I
have a Macedonian name. ...Easy! :-)
I am still puzzled why did you ask me the "slav" question? And even more
puzzled why you failed to answer why you asked me that question?
As for your declaration, good for you. :-), but it didn't interest me, nor
does it interest me now.
Now, will you be brave enough to answer my question? :-)

George S. Tsapanos

2005-01-11 18:18:36 UTC

I am a Macedonian.....>with no other appelations, ...unlike some of the

artificial "Greeks">(grkomani) who claim dual identities (Macedonian and Greek,
or Vlach and>Greek, or ?(choose any other ethnicity) and Greek)>

............and the Nation of the HELLENES, once it crossed into the Pindus
range it was renamed as Nation of the MAKEDONIANS.
Herodotus
Book 1-56

Regards to all ..................L.
"Vlachs, The Autochthonous
Of the Hellenic Peninsula".

Yannis the Macedonian

2005-01-11 19:21:56 UTC

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
I have absolutely no trouble answering your question. I am a

Macedonian.....

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
with no other appelations, ...unlike some of the artificial "Greeks"
(grkomani) who claim dual identities (Macedonian and Greek, or Vlach and
Greek, or ?(choose any other ethnicity) and Greek). I speak Macedonian and I
have a Macedonian name. ...Easy! :-)

You are an IDIOT that closes his eyes to the truth. Macedonians spoke
always Greek. Otherwise they wouldn't and couldn't name their capitals
after Greek names: Aigai, Pella, Thessaloniki, let alone their cities.
Istor
Macedonia, Greece

ADR

2005-01-11 21:44:03 UTC

Macedonian is and remains a regional affiliation with a specific
particularism. All the citizens of the Greek province of Macedonia are
Macedonians. It is self evident here that you are a Macedonian Slav
on the basis of your culture and language. I do not see why you have
possibly are problem with this. There are Macedonian Greeks, Slavs,
Albanians, Roma and Vlachs (on the main). Stating that you are simply
a Macedonian you display a tremendous level of insecurity and essential
contempt for the culture that you possess and the language that you
speak.

ADR

PS: Macedonian Greeks like me have a specific regional identity which
is a subset of their Greek national identity, very much like the other
regional groups in Greece. Macedonian Slavs have their own identity
which is separate from other Macedonian ethnic groups. Any attempt to
corner the term "Macedonian" by a single group is silly and doomed to
failure.

Pres George W. Bush

2005-01-11 23:28:56 UTC

Post by ADR
Macedonian is and remains a regional affiliation with a specific
particularism. All the citizens of the Greek province of Macedonia are
Macedonians. It is self evident here that you are a Macedonian Slav
on the basis of your culture and language. I do not see why you have
possibly are problem with this. There are Macedonian Greeks, Slavs,
Albanians, Roma and Vlachs (on the main). Stating that you are simply
a Macedonian you display a tremendous level of insecurity and essential
contempt for the culture that you possess and the language that you
speak.
ADR
PS: Macedonian Greeks like me have a specific regional identity which
is a subset of their Greek national identity, very much like the other
regional groups in Greece. Macedonian Slavs have their own identity
which is separate from other Macedonian ethnic groups. Any attempt to
corner the term "Macedonian" by a single group is silly and doomed to
failure.

Singing straight from the songbook of Greek propaganda. Its amazing how you
Grkomans all sound the same. The fallacy in your analysis above is that
"any single group" is trying to claim to be Macedonian, as if there are
separate peoples making this claim. THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE.
--
Regards,

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

ADR

2005-01-12 01:07:57 UTC

Who are the same people? Am I the same as you? Is this what you
mean???

ADR

Jason K. Lambrou

2005-01-12 03:09:44 UTC

Post by ADR
Who are the same people? Am I the same as you? Is this what you
mean???
ADR

Yes you are!!!

Pres George W. Bush

2005-01-12 03:26:46 UTC

Post by Jason K. Lambrou

Post by ADR
Who are the same people? Am I the same as you? Is this what you
mean???
ADR

Yes you are!!!

At least we can agree on something.
--
Regards,

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

ADR

2005-01-12 18:16:51 UTC

Well, how do you know that I am the same as you??? I am just wondering
ADR

Jason K. Lambrou

2005-01-12 18:19:17 UTC

Post by ADR
Well, how do you know that I am the same as you??? I am just wondering
ADR

You are anti-Greek, and you insult Greek posters everytime you get a
chance,as Dorian said you play good cop/bad cop in this NG.Explain to us
peasants-for an esteemed professot like yourself to have a newsreader
that cannot read Greek, in the year 2005? Εσυ εισε Σλαβος 100%,

Zhivko Apostolovski

2005-01-12 22:54:28 UTC

Post by Jason K. Lambrou

Post by ADR
Well, how do you know that I am the same as you??? I am just wondering
ADR

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Dorian West

2005-01-13 18:48:44 UTC

As proof, I offer this humble token of my esteem.

Why is it when I ask this 1 question let alone scores more, you Slavs hide
like a demon horde from hell was chasing you? Humour me and make up
something even! I used the magic word. I said, "please". It's pathetic
destroying your world view with, as my great TV hero, Mr. Spock would say,
"pure logic". That reminds me of my other TV hero, William Shatner who wrote
in his biography he played Captain Kirk, "like the greatest Greek hero,
Alexander the Great". I do digress however.

Here, I'll help you answer the question that ails you so. We renamed it
because we were finally free from Serbian control. We renamed it because the
Bulgarians and Germans on the Axis side were occupying Greece. We renamed it
because lost sources were uncovered that proved once and for all 2 key
points that 1. Macedonians were not Greeks and 2. we, the Slavs are
Macedonians. The sources were subsequently lost again. We didn't kill
200,000 Greeks, only 160,000 (I do say almost 200,000).

Why not answer question 1 of mine below? Oops, silly me, I have answered it
for you. Hehehehe!!!

1. Why did the Yugoslavs rename their province Vardaska, adjoining the Greek
province of Macedonia, to Makedonija (Macedonia in English) on 2nd August
1944? In addition, why did they consider it necessary to kill almost 200,000
Greeks in their failed 1944-49 effort of conquering Greece and especially
the beloved Greek province of Macedonia - the Heart of Greece?

ANSWER TO GET YOU STARTED: "I shall not indulge in a lecture on the ancient
identity of the Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the
Great, but the Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they
launched in the early days of the dispute... "Nor shall I engage in a
lecture on the falsification of the history of Slavo-Macedonia since 1944,
although that, too, as much hard factual content. I simply remind the House
that Tito's renaming of Vardar Banovina as the Republic of Macedonia in 1944
was a political statement. More than that, it was a territorial claim. It
laid claim to territory in Greece and in Bulgaria. Notably, the objective
was the warm water port of Salonika on the Aegean."

[Mr. Edward O'Hara of the British Parliament]

Post by Jason K. Lambrou

Post by ADR
Well, how do you know that I am the same as you??? I am just wondering
ADR

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Pres George W. Bush

2005-01-12 01:52:00 UTC

Post by ADR
Who are the same people? Am I the same as you? Is this what you
mean???
ADR

YES

--
Regards,

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

June R Harton

2005-01-12 06:15:28 UTC

"Pres George W. Bush" <Pres George W. ***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:cs25eo$r28$***@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...

Do you think being stupid impresses anyone, Bulgar?

Folks, you only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic majority,
like that last poster and ilindra, and Nicholov and Slavko are simply West
Bulgarians and have no connection to 'Macedonia' anything:

In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

And here:

Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......

http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html

Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).

And here:

For fair use only.

http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...

Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.

The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"

Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV

This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,

and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "

And here:

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm

http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm

And finally here

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm

http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid

from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!

stardimi

2005-01-12 12:15:51 UTC

identity

Post by ADR
which is separate from other Macedonian ethnic groups. Any attempt to
corner the term "Macedonian" by a single group is silly and doomed to
failure.

Singing straight from the songbook of Greek propaganda. Its amazing how you
Grkomans all sound the same. The fallacy in your analysis above is that
"any single group" is trying to claim to be Macedonian, as if there are
separate peoples making this claim. THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE.
--
Regards,
President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

It's obvious that one of us is victim of some kind of propaganda. But
wouldn't you say that to a neutral observer someone who has a slavic
name and speaks a slavic language and claims that he is actually
"macedonian" and that his language is actually Greek, but not the fake
Greek of the other Greeks but the real Greek of the Macedonians, which
actually is slavic and sounds like Bulgarian... don't you think that to
this observer you might appear as a little bit biased? In the end if
"we" are that good in creating conspiracies by hijacking the language,
the land, the religion, the names, the cities, and the mental
projection of the Macedonians and you the genuine indigenous failed to
preserve any of that, and actually you hate most of that, then we
deserve this heritage and you don't. At least we don't hate it and try
to change our names to apostolov and paparofsky. We keep the originals
because we like them. We actually love them. If you like them too, then
you can change your name to Zarkadis Apostolopoulos and then you might
sound more convincing.

Actually this whole line of argumentation enters the realm of
rediculous. The reson why I originally asked you was because I wanted
to see wether behind these claims of yours there is actually some
rationale, for example in why your names and language are slavic but
you resent being slavs. What is the rationale behind this? But very
quickly I realised as many others have that you don't present any
rational. On the contrary you try to convince us that Zhivko
Apostolovski is not slavic but Macedonian, because you like it so and
without providing any rationale. I'm afraid this makes you the obvious
victim of propaganda in my mind, I'm not convinced about anything
you're saying, not because I believe in my own book, but because you
don't provide any plausible explanation for some very telling
observables. You had many chances to do it, many people asked you, and
you still didn't provide any explanations on the burning issues. So
don't blame us if we don't believe you.

Panayiotis

2005-01-12 14:57:08 UTC

======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================

Post by ADR

Post by ADR
Macedonian is and remains a regional affiliation with a specific
particularism. All the citizens of the Greek province of Macedonia

are

Post by ADR
Macedonians. It is self evident here that you are a Macedonian

Slav

Post by ADR
on the basis of your culture and language. I do not see why you

have

Post by ADR
possibly are problem with this. There are Macedonian Greeks,

Slavs,

Post by ADR
Albanians, Roma and Vlachs (on the main). Stating that you are

simply

Post by ADR
a Macedonian you display a tremendous level of insecurity and

essential

Post by ADR
contempt for the culture that you possess and the language that you
speak.
ADR
PS: Macedonian Greeks like me have a specific regional identity

which

Post by ADR
is a subset of their Greek national identity, very much like the

other

Post by ADR
regional groups in Greece. Macedonian Slavs have their own

identity

Post by ADR
which is separate from other Macedonian ethnic groups. Any attempt

Post by ADR
corner the term "Macedonian" by a single group is silly and doomed

Post by ADR
failure.

Singing straight from the songbook of Greek propaganda. Its amazing

how you

Post by Pres George W. Bush
Grkomans all sound the same. The fallacy in your analysis above is

that

Post by Pres George W. Bush
"any single group" is trying to claim to be Macedonian, as if there

are

Post by Pres George W. Bush
separate peoples making this claim. THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE.
--
Regards,
President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

It's obvious that one of us is victim of some kind of propaganda. But
wouldn't you say that to a neutral observer someone who has a slavic
name and speaks a slavic language and claims that he is actually
"macedonian" and that his language is actually Greek, but not the fake
Greek of the other Greeks but the real Greek of the Macedonians, which
actually is slavic and sounds like Bulgarian... don't you think that to
this observer you might appear as a little bit biased? In the end if
"we" are that good in creating conspiracies by hijacking the language,
the land, the religion, the names, the cities, and the mental
projection of the Macedonians and you the genuine indigenous failed to
preserve any of that, and actually you hate most of that, then we
deserve this heritage and you don't. At least we don't hate it and try
to change our names to apostolov and paparofsky. We keep the originals
because we like them. We actually love them. If you like them too, then
you can change your name to Zarkadis Apostolopoulos and then you might
sound more convincing.
Actually this whole line of argumentation enters the realm of
rediculous. The reson why I originally asked you was because I wanted
to see wether behind these claims of yours there is actually some
rationale, for example in why your names and language are slavic but
you resent being slavs. What is the rationale behind this? But very
quickly I realised as many others have that you don't present any
rational. On the contrary you try to convince us that Zhivko
Apostolovski is not slavic but Macedonian, because you like it so and
without providing any rationale. I'm afraid this makes you the obvious
victim of propaganda in my mind, I'm not convinced about anything
you're saying, not because I believe in my own book, but because you
don't provide any plausible explanation for some very telling
observables. You had many chances to do it, many people asked you, and
you still didn't provide any explanations on the burning issues. So
don't blame us if we don't believe you.

stardimi,
Very good analysis.
The question you posed to Zhivko is still unanswered: "do you consider
yourself a slav or not"?

Zhivko, still waiting for a straight answer.

Panayiotis

Dorian West

2005-01-12 06:03:53 UTC

There you go again Dr. Retzios, proving to me that you are indeed a Slav and
a Trojan horse, this time against the Greeks! Since when is a MongolSlave a
Macedonian-Slav????? Slav-Macedonian at best, but not a Macedonian-Slav,
ever! This is an insult to the Macedonian-Greeks and spits in the eyes of
those Greeks that fought against the bog-head Slavs who wished to propel
Greece into the abyss of Godless communism.

Anyway,
why is it when I ask this 1 question, let alone scores more, you Slavs hide
as though a demon horde from hell was chasing you? Humour me and make up
something even! I used the magic word. I said, "please". It's pathetic
destroying your world view with, as my great TV hero, Mr. Spock would say,
"pure logic". That reminds me of my other TV hero, William Shatner, who
wrote in his biography that he played Captain Kirk, "like the greatest Greek
hero, Alexander the Great". I do digress however.

Here, I'll help you answer the question that ails you so. "We renamed it
because we were finally free from Serbian control. We renamed it because the
Bulgarians and Germans on the Axis side were occupying Greece. We renamed it
because lost sources were uncovered that proved once and for all 2 key
points that 1. Macedonians were not Greeks and 2. we, the Slavs are
Macedonians. The sources were subsequently lost again. We didn't kill
200,000 Greeks, only 160,000 (I do say almost 200,000). We renamed it
because we are ashamed of our Slavic, Turkic and Gypsy origins and anything
has got to better than that. We renamed it in order to assume the identity
of the Macedonians, who are a glorious Greek tribe with a history spanning
over 3 millennia, and take everything they have even their lives if
necessary."

Why not answer question 1 of mine below? Oops, silly me, I have answered it
for you. Hehehehe!!!

1. Why did the Yugoslavs rename their province Vardaska Banovina, adjoining
the Greek province of Macedonia, to Republika Makedonija (Macedonia in
English) on 2nd August 1944? In addition, why did they consider it necessary
to kill almost 200,000 Greeks in their failed 1944-49 effort of conquering
and converting to atheist communism Greece and especially the beloved Greek
province of Macedonia - the Heart of Greece?

ANSWER TO GET YOU STARTED: "I shall not indulge in a lecture on the ancient
identity of the Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the
Great, but the Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they
launched in the early days of the dispute... "Nor shall I engage in a
lecture on the falsification of the history of Slavo-Macedonia since 1944,
although that, too, as much hard factual content. I simply remind the House
that Tito's renaming of Vardar Banovina as the Republic of Macedonia in 1944
was a political statement. More than that, it was a territorial claim. It
laid claim to territory in Greece and in Bulgaria. Notably, the objective
was the warm water port of Salonika on the Aegean."

[Mr. Edward O'Hara of the British Parliament]

Pres George W. Bush

2005-01-11 23:25:31 UTC

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
I have absolutely no trouble answering your question. I am a

Macedonian.....

That is correct! We are flattered that the Bulgarians and the Greeks show
so much interest in us, unfortunately we are Macedonians only and will never
change for our occupiers.
--
Regards,

President George W. Bush
The White House
Washington, DC
United States of America

June R Harton

2005-01-12 06:24:43 UTC

Folks, you only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic majority,
like that last Bulgar poster and ilindra, and Nicholov and Slavko are
simply West Bulgarians and have no connection to 'Macedonia' anything:

In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

And here:

Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......

http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html

Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).

And here:

For fair use only.

http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...

Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.

The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"

Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV

This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,

and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "

And here:

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm

http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm

And finally here

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm

http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid

from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!

June R Harton

2005-01-12 06:14:35 UTC

"Zhivko Apostolovski" <***@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:zSQEd.114379$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Very silly, BULGAR.

Folks, you only have to look here to see that the Fyrom Slavic majority,
like that last poster and ilindra, and Nicholov and Slavko are simply West
Bulgarians and have no connection to 'Macedonia' anything:

In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

And here:

Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......

http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macmodnat2.html

Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).

And here:

For fair use only.

http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...

Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.

The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"

Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV

This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,

and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "

And here:

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm

http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm

And finally here

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm

http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3?nid=199&name=ochrid

from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!

Dorian West

2005-01-13 18:49:08 UTC

June R Harton

2005-01-11 06:42:15 UTC

"Zhivko Apostolovski" <***@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:TKBEd.113368$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

'Cos he doesn't know that your parents told you they and you were
born Bulgarian and would die Bulgarian.

from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!

Dorian West

2005-01-11 11:00:41 UTC

Why is it when I ask this 1 question, let alone scores more, you Slavs hide
as though a demon horde from hell was chasing you? Humour me and make up
something even! I used the magic word. I said, "please". It's pathetic
destroying your world view with, as my great TV hero, Mr. Spock would say,
"pure logic". That reminds me of my other TV hero, William Shatner, who
wrote in his biography that he played Captain Kirk, "like the greatest Greek
hero, Alexander the Great". I do digress however.

Here, I'll help you answer the question that ails you so. "We renamed it
because we were finally free from Serbian control. We renamed it because the
Bulgarians and Germans on the Axis side were occupying Greece. We renamed it
because lost sources were uncovered that proved once and for all 2 key
points that 1. Macedonians were not Greeks and 2. we, the Slavs are
Macedonians. The sources were subsequently lost again. We didn't kill
200,000 Greeks, only 160,000 (I do say almost 200,000). We renamed it
because we are ashamed of our Slavic, Turkic and Gypsy origins and anything
has got to better than that. We renamed it in order to assume the identity
of the Macedonians, who are a glorious Greek tribe with a history spanning
over 3 millennia, and take everything they have even their lives if
necessary."

Why not answer question 1 of mine below? Oops, silly me, I have answered it
for you. Hehehehe!!!

1. Why did the Yugoslavs rename their province Vardaska Banovina, adjoining
the Greek province of Macedonia, to Republika Makedonija (Macedonia in
English) on 2nd August 1944? In addition, why did they consider it necessary
to kill almost 200,000 Greeks in their failed 1944-49 effort of conquering
and converting to atheist communism Greece and especially the beloved Greek
province of Macedonia - the Heart of Greece?

ANSWER TO GET YOU STARTED: "I shall not indulge in a lecture on the ancient
identity of the Macedonians and on Philip II of Macedon and Alexander the
Great, but the Greeks were historically correct in the campaign that they
launched in the early days of the dispute... "Nor shall I engage in a
lecture on the falsification of the history of Slavo-Macedonia since 1944,
although that, too, as much hard factual content. I simply remind the House
that Tito's renaming of Vardar Banovina as the Republic of Macedonia in 1944
was a political statement. More than that, it was a territorial claim. It
laid claim to territory in Greece and in Bulgaria. Notably, the objective
was the warm water port of Salonika on the Aegean."

[Mr. Edward O'Hara of the British Parliament]

Panayiotis

2005-01-10 21:31:59 UTC

======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was buried

in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name of

Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he carried

out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It is

known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but "coincides"

with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the "Macedonian
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Stardimi,
I was curious about the same thing, but I refrained from asking Zhivkov,
because I knew he wouldn't reply. He is arrogant and full of bla-bla.

Panayiotis

Dorian West

2005-01-11 04:35:41 UTC

Post by Panayiotis
======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
According to bulgarian sources, the Macedonian Tsar Samuil was buried

in the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
patriarch church on the isle of St Achil, Lake Prespa (now under

greek

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
juristiction). They have cited some greek professor by the name of

Nicholas

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Mutsopoulos (spelling?) who claims to have discovered the body prior

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
1965, then transferred it to his home in Salonica, where he carried

out

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
further examinations.
According to the report, Tsar Samui's body was buried wrapped in

purple

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
cloth, which according to Mutsopoulos is the norm for royalty. It is

known

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
that this is not the case with the Bulgarian Khans, but "coincides"

with the

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
ancient Macedonian royalty, whose formal, ceremonial wear was purple,

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
well. :-)
Food for thought for the bulgar and greek anti Macedonian

propagandists. :-)

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
Zhivko
PS Ivan Vazov, one of the best known poets of the 19th C from

Bulgaria, in

Post by Zhivko Apostolovski
his poem "Before Belasitsa" refers to Tsar Samuil as the "Macedonian
Emperor" :-)

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a slav or not?

Stardimi,
I was curious about the same thing, but I refrained from asking Zhivkov,
because I knew he wouldn't reply. He is arrogant and full of bla-bla.
Panayiotis

He is a slit-eyed MongolSlave full of the cruddy propaganda those
triangle-heads spew forth. F%^k man - choice: Greek or Slav, what would you
choose? It's that simple these slope-heads hate who and what they are with a
vengeance. Why else do Slavic women have as their number 1 career aspiration
becoming a western prostitute??? I wouldn't screw those diseased things in a
billion years.

Nikolay Sarmadzhiev

2005-01-11 22:12:39 UTC