Discussion:
More proof of the atrocities by Greeks and Bulgarians against Macedonians:
(too old to reply)
Ilinden
2004-01-31 03:27:29 UTC
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More proof of the atrocities by Greeks and Bulgarians against Macedonians:
The Bulgarians first - Many western newspapers covered the Bulgarian
campaign of violence and terror against Macedonians. One of the Western
intellectuals who dealt with this issue was the reputable German
publicist Victor Mayer. He filed a report in the German newspaper
"Frankfurter Alemange Zeitung" on July 3rd, 1978 based on an extended
visit to Pirin Macedonia. Mr. Mayer witnessed how the majority of the
population in Pirin Macedonia identified themselves as ethnic
Macedonians but were prohibited from calling themselves Macedonians,
which was a denial of their most basic national human rights. In his
report Mr. Mayer observed "...anyone who calls himself a Macedonian is
exposed to political persecution...In the Pirin region the question of
national consciousness today is a matter dealt with by police...".
Victor Mayer quoted what he heard many times from Macedonians in Pirin
Macedonia: "We are Macedonians, pure Macedonians, but we are not allowed
to declare ourselves as such!"

Next the Greeks:
Based on documentation of this most recent period of Greek terror, in
the years 1945-1947 more than 300 Macedonian women and girls were raped,
over 300 Macedonians were killed, over 6,500 arrested, over 13,500
beaten and over 14,000 displaced. In 1947 the United Nations Inquiry
Commission visited Macedonia in response to these terrible incidents.
One of the commanders of the Democratic Army of Greece, the Greek
Yanoulis gave the following statement to journalists who were following
the work of the Commission:
"As a Greek I am ashamed to speak about the terror against the
Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia, which was the reason I took up arms to
fight against this horror...".
On the same subject the commander of the Democratic Army of Greece, the
Greek Markos Vafiyadis, testified before the Inquiry Commission that the
Greek racists went so far as to burn Macedonian children alive:
"...The atrocities committed are described in detail in the memorandum I
hand over to the United Nations Inquiry Commission...It is difficult for
me to speak about the burnt villages, the screams of the children being
burnt alive, the hundreds of raped girls, the slaughter, the torture,
the ambushes, the ashes of villages falling over the deserted fields for
months..."

The Macedonians are winning!
In recent times, however, due to international pressure, the barbaric
Greek racism towards Macedonians seems to be softening. The Macedonian
political party "Vinozhito" ("Rainbow") was founded in the nineties,
although its members are frequently intimidated and arrested by the
Greek regime, and recently a few semi-legal Macedonian newspapers are
being published. Performance of Macedonian folk songs and dances has
also been tacitly permitted in some places.
Official Greek policy is still hostile to everything that is Macedonian.
Today not only does Greece not recognise the existence of the large
Macedonian population on its territory, but it also brazenly denies the
Macedonian nation wherever it may be. Greece even disputes the
constitutional name of the free and independent Republic of Macedonia,
which is a case without precedent in international relations.
Ilinden the Macedonian
June R Harton
2004-01-31 08:54:41 UTC
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"Ilinden" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:bgFSb.44967$***@news20.bellglobal.com...


Stop lying, Bulgar. I have complete unquestionable proof that *your*
ancestry is completely Bulgarian the same as the Fyrom slavophones.





from: Spirit of Truth

(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
m***@gmail.com
2014-03-17 01:16:52 UTC
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Post by June R Harton
Stop lying, Bulgar. I have complete unquestionable proof that *your*
ancestry is completely Bulgarian the same as the Fyrom slavophones.
from: Spirit of Truth
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
Yannis the Macedonian
2004-01-31 14:12:32 UTC
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"Ilinden" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
More proof of the atrocities by Greeks and Bulgarians against Macedonians:
The Bulgarians first - Many western newspapers covered the Bulgarian
campaign of violence and terror against Macedonians. One of the Western
intellectuals who dealt with this issue was the reputable German publicist
........................................
Ilinden the SlavoSkopian



Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, dialect
and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. Thus they were
Greeks.
Macedonians gave Greek names to ALL the cities they built or renamed. Thus
they were Greeks.
Macedonians defended their Greekness successfully while
Bulgarian-SlavoSkopian violent attempt to slavicize them. Thus they were
Greeks.
Macedonians still defending their tribal name against SlavoSkopian attempt
to peculate it in order to peculate our fame and glory. Thus they are
Greeks.
NO MACEDONIA FOR THE SLAVOSKOPIANS !!
The meaning of the term Macedonian as a Greek from Macedonia will never
change within Greece or reasoning.
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
s***@gmail.com
2013-08-06 10:13:21 UTC
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Great post. Macedonia never was and never will be Greek. Macedonia is for the Macedonians. Our southern neighbours are so obsessed with us, that they've forgotten their own history. Shall I remind them?

1.The first constitution of the Greek state, in the year 1827.

Greeks are:

A. All those indigenous people of the Greek state who believe in Christ.
B. All those believers of Christ, who under Ottoman slavery, came or they will come to the Greek state to struggle or reside in it.
E. All those aliens, who come and enrol as citizens.
(Paragraph 6)

Therefore, to become a Greek at the time it was enough to be a Christian. Jews and Muslims were automatically excluded.

----

2. The 'Greek' language: Today’s Greek language is from 1976, and was created from the Ancient and Christian script found on the territory of Greece which contained limited vocabulary with a lot of Archaic words, many not having survived, and therefore was filled in by words from local languages, usually Macedonian and Turkish. Katharevousa is a semi artificial form of sociolect that was promoted in the 19th century at the foundation time of the Greek state as a compromise between classical Hellenic and Modern Demotic. Katharevousa was the official language of Modern Greece until 1976.

----

3. Population imports, assimilated 'Greeks': The majority of the so-called ‘Greeks’ living in Aegean Macedonia are the descendants of the roughly 500,000 20th c. immigrant Christians from Asia Minor into Macedonian land. Let's look at Arvanites: Their history is well-known, they are Albanians who have migrated into Greece and speak a dialect of the Albanian language. Those living closer to Albania even call themselves "Shqiptars" as the Albanians do. Most are 'hardcore Greeks' and some of the biggest 'Greek' patriots around, yet they're not even ethnically Greek. The vast majority of the Greek population is a result of individuals like these who claim Greek ethnicity however have origins from different lands

----

4. Genetic Testing: THE UNIVERSITY OF MADRID, DEPARTMENT OF IMMUNOLOGY AND MOLECULAR BIOLOGY: (HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.)


IGENEA SWITZERLAND:Post from iGENEA to 26.09.2008

Greece:
10% Germanic
10%illyrians
20% slavs
20% phoenician
5% macedonian (in north more than 18%)
35% Hellenen

Macedonia:
30%macedonian
10% illyrian
15% hellenen
5%phoenician
20% germanic
5% hunnen
15% slavs

Bulgaria:
49%Thraker
11%macedonian
15%slavs
15%hellenen
5% pheonician

Macedonia
I2A – 39%, E1B1B – 26%, RIA - 20%, J2 – 15%, RIB – 10%

Bulgaria
E1B1B – 31%, RIA – 28%, RIB – 41%

Greece
I2A – 11%, E1B1B – 32%, RIA – 12%, J2 – 14%, RIB - 31%

----
5. 'Slav' theory: Short and simple, the Slavs migrated well into Greece, all the way to Peloponnese. The DNA results above show that Greece has more Slavs than the Republic of Macedonia.


CONCLUSION: Ancient Macedon was a well-established kingdom that enslaved the Hellenic city-states. Its rule over the Hellenes was considered alien. Since ancient times up until 1913 Macedonia was never a part of Greece. The term 'Greece' and 'Greek' were not developed until the 19th century. When the Greek state was created, one could become a Greek if they were Christian. Therefore, the 'homogeneity' of Greece is not ethnic, but religious. The Greek language is literally a stew of elements and words adopted from local languages. The Greeks argue that Macedonians are 100% pure Slavs, however according to DNA analysis Greece has more Slavs. The Greek state was established under a German King named Otto and the flag is just shy of being an exact replica of the British East India Trade Company. The Macedonian colours, throughout history, have always been red & yellow, symbolizing wine & gold. If Greece truly had a claim to one of the greatest, most powerful kingdoms of the ancient world...why not incorporate the colours into their culture? I know why! Because the 'Greeks' in Aegean Macedonia that pride themselves in their 'Macedonian' heritage have roots that can all be traced back to Asia Minor! If that's not the case, they're either Vlach, Albanian/Arvanite, Macedonian, Roma or part of the legitimate, ethnic Greek MINORITY. Greece grabbed a large chunk of Macedonian land through the Treaty of Bucharest in 1913 and now they will do ANYTHING to make sure the historical truth remains hidden from the public eye. They can scream, shout and throw a fit but lies can only silence the truth, they can't change it.

Long live Macedonia, once again united, for the Macedonians as it always was!

P.S. Are we all forgetting that from 1913 to WW2 the region of 'Greek' Macedonia was documented as the 'New Territory' (Hmm), from WW2 to 1988 it was 'Northern Greece' and finally, in 1988 when the Macedonian refugees from Greece protested on the Yugoslav-Greek border for the recognition of the Macedonian identity and language, that's when the population of Northern Greece had an epiphany, remembering their proud 'Macedonian' heritage, and the region was renamed to Macedonia.

The reason why Greece has managed to successfully propagate their way through history and receive such great support from the Western countries is because the nation is an experiment of greater powers (Germany in particular) for money laundering, nothing more, nothing less.
++
2013-10-17 16:32:21 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Great post. Macedonia never was and never will be Greek. Macedonia is for the Macedonians. Our southern neighbours are so obsessed with us, that they've forgotten their own history. Shall I remind them?
1.The first constitution of the Greek state, in the year 1827.
A. All those indigenous people of the Greek state who believe in Christ.
I think the document should respect Muslim and Buddhist Greeks

Religion should be a choice, not a determinant and use local languages.
Post by s***@gmail.com
B. All those believers of Christ, who under Ottoman slavery, came or they will come to the Greek state to struggle or reside in it.
E. All those aliens, who come and enrol as citizens.
(Paragraph 6)
Therefore, to become a Greek at the time it was enough to be a Christian. Jews and Muslims were automatically excluded.
----
2. The 'Greek' language: Today’s Greek language is from 1976, and was created from the Ancient and Christian script found on the territory of Greece which contained limited vocabulary with a lot of Archaic words, many not having survived, and therefore was filled in by words from local languages, usually Macedonian and Turkish. Katharevousa is a semi artificial form of sociolect that was promoted in the 19th century at the foundation time of the Greek state as a compromise between classical Hellenic and Modern Demotic. Katharevousa was the official language of Modern Greece until 1976.
----
3. Population imports, assimilated 'Greeks': The majority of the so-called ‘Greeks’ living in Aegean Macedonia are the descendants of the roughly 500,000 20th c. immigrant Christians from Asia Minor into Macedonian land. Let's look at Arvanites: Their history is well-known, they are Albanians who have migrated into Greece and speak a dialect of the Albanian language. Those living closer to Albania even call themselves "Shqiptars" as the Albanians do. Most are 'hardcore Greeks' and some of the biggest 'Greek' patriots around, yet they're not even ethnically Greek. The vast majority of the Greek population is a result of individuals like these who claim Greek ethnicity however have origins from different lands
----
4. Genetic Testing: THE UNIVERSITY OF MADRID, DEPARTMENT OF IMMUNOLOGY AND MOLECULAR BIOLOGY: (HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.)
IGENEA SWITZERLAND:Post from iGENEA to 26.09.2008
10% Germanic
10%illyrians
20% slavs
20% phoenician
5% macedonian (in north more than 18%)
35% Hellenen
30%macedonian
10% illyrian
15% hellenen
5%phoenician
20% germanic
5% hunnen
15% slavs
49%Thraker
11%macedonian
15%slavs
15%hellenen
5% pheonician
Macedonia
I2A – 39%, E1B1B – 26%, RIA - 20%, J2 – 15%, RIB – 10%
Bulgaria
E1B1B – 31%, RIA – 28%, RIB – 41%
Greece
I2A – 11%, E1B1B – 32%, RIA – 12%, J2 – 14%, RIB - 31%
----
5. 'Slav' theory: Short and simple, the Slavs migrated well into Greece, all the way to Peloponnese. The DNA results above show that Greece has more Slavs than the Republic of Macedonia.
CONCLUSION: Ancient Macedon was a well-established kingdom that enslaved the Hellenic city-states. Its rule over the Hellenes was considered alien. Since ancient times up until 1913 Macedonia was never a part of Greece. The term 'Greece' and 'Greek' were not developed until the 19th century. When the Greek state was created, one could become a Greek if they were Christian. Therefore, the 'homogeneity' of Greece is not ethnic, but religious. The Greek language is literally a stew of elements and words adopted from local languages. The Greeks argue that Macedonians are 100% pure Slavs, however according to DNA analysis Greece has more Slavs. The Greek state was established under a German King named Otto and the flag is just shy of being an exact replica of the British East India Trade Company. The Macedonian colours, throughout history, have always been red & yellow, symbolizing wine & gold. If Greece truly had a claim to one of the greatest, most powerful kingdoms of the ancient world...why not incorporate the colours into their culture? I know why! Because the 'Greeks' in Aegean Macedonia that pride themselves in their 'Macedonian' heritage have roots that can all be traced back to Asia Minor! If that's not the case, they're either Vlach, Albanian/Arvanite, Macedonian, Roma or part of the legitimate, ethnic Greek MINORITY. Greece grabbed a large chunk of Macedonian land through the Treaty of Bucharest in 1913 and now they will do ANYTHING to make sure the historical truth remains hidden from the public eye. They can scream, shout and throw a fit but lies can only silence the truth, they can't change it.
Long live Macedonia, once again united, for the Macedonians as it always was!
P.S. Are we all forgetting that from 1913 to WW2 the region of 'Greek' Macedonia was documented as the 'New Territory' (Hmm), from WW2 to 1988 it was 'Northern Greece' and finally, in 1988 when the Macedonian refugees from Greece protested on the Yugoslav-Greek border for the recognition of the Macedonian identity and language, that's when the population of Northern Greece had an epiphany, remembering their proud 'Macedonian' heritage, and the region was renamed to Macedonia.
The reason why Greece has managed to successfully propagate their way through history and receive such great support from the Western countries is because the nation is an experiment of greater powers (Germany in particular) for money laundering, nothing more, nothing less.
Lucky Archer (Lakis Velotris)
2013-10-02 17:57:45 UTC
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DNA tests are now available for a hundrded bucks.
Take one and liberate yourself from your lies!
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