Discussion:
MACEDONIA IS NOT GREEK, READ YOU PEOPLE!!! (p.s. I'm Greek)
(too old to reply)
GreekWolf
2003-08-17 10:37:15 UTC
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Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!

Regards

Dimitris
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-17 11:20:55 UTC
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Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
Macedonians of 187x to 1914 and later defended their Greekness against
Turkish occupation and SlavoSkopian-Bulgarian excruciation.
The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.
If ancient Macedonians were Greeks ( which is true of course), then, no
non-Greek people can be named Macedonian even if it occupies Macedonia.
Just as Turks that occupy Ionia are not Ionians. Just as Bulgarians that
occupy Thrace are not Thracians.
Do you believe that if Bulgarians had Macedonia they would be named
Macedonians ?
Anyway you obviously have read history of 1910 to 1914. Feel free to tell
us about.
( I doubt that you are Greek. )
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
WolfWolf
2003-08-17 17:58:59 UTC
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Post by Yannis the Makedonian
The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.
That's why Macedonians will always defend their Macedonianness against attacks by
Greeks.
Wouldn't Greeks do the same if Macedonians suddenly claim that they were Greeks?

WolfWolf
The European
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-17 21:25:15 UTC
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Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.
That's why Macedonians will always defend their Macedonianness against attacks by
Greeks.
Wouldn't Greeks do the same if Macedonians suddenly claim that they were Greeks?
WolfWolf
The European
Dear Farter,
The cargo of the Macedonian name is for SlavoSkopians empy if not carbages
and shame, because Macedonians were always Greeks and spread Greek Language
and Civilization to the World.
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
WolfWolf
2003-08-17 22:06:39 UTC
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Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
The question is not about the land but the name and its cargo.
That's why Macedonians will always defend their Macedonianness against
attacks by
Post by WolfWolf
Greeks.
Wouldn't Greeks do the same if Macedonians suddenly claim that they were
Greeks?
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
Dear Father,
I didn't claim fatherhood, boy, otherwise your education would be better ....
Post by WolfWolf
The cargo of the Macedonian name is for SlavoSkopians empy if not carbages
... and your writings would be meaningful instead of gluposti
- cargo???
- slavo.. what???
- empy???
- carbages???

Stop smoking pot, it's not good for health.

And don't forget that Greeks are Greeks and Macedonians are Macedonians, which are two
totally unrelated identities since Macedonians came from the north while Greeks are
immigrants from sub-Saharan origin.

WolfWolf
The European
Grigor Gatchev
2003-08-18 09:12:00 UTC
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Post by WolfWolf
And don't forget that Greeks are Greeks and Macedonians are Macedonians, which are two
totally unrelated identities since Macedonians came from the north while Greeks are
immigrants from sub-Saharan origin.
Sorry, but this is not true.

Every people is eventually imigrants from sub-Saharan origin, and
Greeks no more than any other. Macedonians were one of the tribes,
together with Dorians, Ionians, Spartans etc., that eventually merged
into the Greek identity. The origin and habitat of all these tribes is
common.
l***@gmail.com
2017-05-06 04:13:39 UTC
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The name Macedonia is Slavic!! It literally translates to the mothers home. Majka means mother and doma means home. Why would Greeks use the Slavic language?? Now there will be a Greek response to this with their own made up meaning of the word Macedonia. Now I've seen this a hundred times but when I try to put it in google translate nothing comes up!! The villages and mountains and rivers and lakes ..all Slavic names even the people were forced to change names to hide the fact Macedonians were not Greeks!! The argument is pointless anyway!! Maybe we will get the truth!! But the word Macedonia is Slavic!! It makes logical sense!! It translates to the mothers home!! Simple!!
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
2017-05-06 11:17:02 UTC
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Post by l***@gmail.com
The name Macedonia is Slavic!! It literally translates to the mothers home
.. Majka means mother and doma means home.
This is bullshit. Macedonia has a good enough case against the Greek
demands without inventing "alternative facts". This actually hurts your
cause. If you claim that something is true which is definitely not,
they will think that you have no valid arguments at all.

Ilinden
2003-08-18 01:42:42 UTC
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Dimitri, keep up the good work, regards, Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
lab
2003-08-18 19:56:05 UTC
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My friends scopian people...a lot time a go...when you eat radix we make
Parthenon ;-)
What is your history???or you stole it for us???

ONE HELLINIC PEOPLE
Post by Ilinden
Dimitri, keep up the good work, regards, Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
lab
2003-08-21 08:40:09 UTC
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kala ta les re giorgo alla aytoi tha mas mas fane kai to mega alexandro se
ligo...oso gia to shithead den antilego kathos xrisimopoiisa tono eironiko
sto post...kata ta alla kalos eimai ;-)

filika labros
Hello all Guys. first of all i would like to apologisze for the
ego-pathetic style and attitude of my shithead greek compatriot (
Lambros) as he spoke with no arguments exposing Greece. My dear i fell
sorry for you. Indeed Macedonia was never greek however on the other
hand was never Serb or Bulgarian. Geografically certainly it was but
ethnologically was never. If you read history this is easy to be
understood. Every people living in the so called Macedonia area had
its own civilisation, and culture and during the ages some had th
upper hand depending at which part geographically they were. Do not
confuse nations and tribes with modern countries and citizenships. Do
not forget that till early 1900 all the region was under Turkish
occupation so there were no borders and people were able to move
around. So the mixing was inevitable. Greeks were almost everywere (
as traders), Bulgarians were living in Thrace, Slavs were living in
Greek Macedonia. This does not mean that any of them has any right for
territorial claims. The natural borders ( mountains, rivers, lakes,
etc), the leading spoken language, and the religion beyond these
borders, are the sole and solid proof. Macedonians they were never a
nation. We have greek macedonians, who are GREEKs who speak greek, etc
etc. We have Bulgarian Macedonians who are BULGARIANS and of course we
have Slav Macedonians who are MACEDONIANS not because such a nation
exists but because on 1948 a "country" with such a name was created by
TITO. The creation of a modern type country does not mean that a
nation was created overnight. Is it to difficult to understand ? All
the alleged current complications are non sense. I will be glad to
hear from you.
Post by lab
My friends scopian people...a lot time a go...when you eat radix we make
Parthenon ;-)
What is your history???or you stole it for us???
ONE HELLINIC PEOPLE
Post by Ilinden
Dimitri, keep up the good work, regards, Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
rikopal
2003-08-18 09:17:13 UTC
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FYROM's President Gligorov at a interview reported by the Foreign
Information Service, Daily Report, Eastern Europe: "We are Slavs, who came
to this region in the sixth century. We are not descendants of the ancient
Macedonians."

FYROM's Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, in her speech on
the present situation in the Balkans: "We do not claim to be descendants of
Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language. Greece is
FYROM's second largest trading partner, and its number one investor".

In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM's
Ambassador to Canada: "We are not related to the northern Greeks who
produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are Slav people and
our language is closely related to Bulgarian." He also commented "there is
some confusion about the identity of the people of this country".
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
rikopal
2003-08-19 10:24:30 UTC
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Why more than 10000 pupils in Skopia are learning Greek??

Why most of them are girls??
Rikohead, which was the by far biggest single investor in Macedonia, outnumbering all
others during the last 10 years???
Your obtuse answer please no gluposti ...
WolfWolf
The European
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
Ilinden
2003-08-19 19:23:09 UTC
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Rikohead you are stupid.
Post by rikopal
Why more than 10000 pupils in Skopia are learning Greek??
Why most of them are girls??
Rikohead, which was the by far biggest single investor in Macedonia, outnumbering all
others during the last 10 years???
Your obtuse answer please no gluposti ...
WolfWolf
The European
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
rikopal
2003-08-20 10:34:06 UTC
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President of Vlachs in monastir speaking at a documentary:

"More than 10000 pupils are learning Greek because they want to find
work in Greece"

If you have any question Doggie ask him.Personally I don't give a shit
what they are learning...
Post by rikopal
Why more than 10000 pupils in Skopia are learning Greek??
Why most of them are girls??
Who said that, rikohead?
Another propaganda bullshit from your politburo???
"Given the close political and economic ties between the two countries, Macedonians
are very interested in learning the German language. Supply is sometimes outstripped
by demand. In terms of enrolments, German is the third most popular foreign language
(behind English and French); in terms of importance it ranks second."
Now cry in your porridge, rikohead!!
WolfWolf
The European
Post by rikopal
Rikohead, which was the by far biggest single investor in Macedonia, outnumbering
all
Post by rikopal
others during the last 10 years???
Your obtuse answer please no gluposti ...
WolfWolf
The European
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
rikopal
2003-08-21 08:55:05 UTC
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learn something ,since you are learning, from your own president Bulgaroturk:

FYROM's President Gligorov at a interview reported by the Foreign
Information Service, Daily Report, Eastern Europe: "We are Slavs, who came
to this region in the sixth century. We are not descendants of the ancient
Macedonians."

FYROM's Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, in her speech on
the present situation in the Balkans: "We do not claim to be descendants of
Alexander the Great. We are Slavs and we speak a Slav language. Greece is
FYROM's second largest trading partner, and its number one investor".

In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM's
Ambassador to Canada: "We are not related to the northern Greeks who
produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are Slav people and
our language is closely related to Bulgarian." He also commented "there is
some confusion about the identity of the people of this country".
Post by GreekWolf
Post by rikopal
Why more than 10000 pupils in Skopia are learning Greek??
Why most of them are girls??
Who said that, rikohead?
Another propaganda bullshit from your politburo???
"Given the close political and economic ties between the two countries,
Macedonians
are very interested in learning the German language. Supply is sometimes
outstripped
by demand. In terms of enrolments, German is the third most popular foreign
language
(behind English and French); in terms of importance it ranks second."
Now cry in your porridge, rikohead!!
WolfWolf
The European
Post by rikopal
Rikohead, which was the by far biggest single investor in Macedonia,
outnumbering
all
Post by rikopal
others during the last 10 years???
Your obtuse answer please no gluposti ...
WolfWolf
The European
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
rikopal
2003-08-25 11:48:25 UTC
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Thank you

You just proved how bulgar you are and what everybody knows: Fyromians
have no connections whatsoever with macedonians who speak only the greek
language because they are hellenes.

Now show us and your turkish knowledge to prove that you are a turkobulgar..
Post by rikopal
learn something
Bulgarian: Toj chranese naroda sas slovoto, onzi istinski chljab, kojto ukrepva
sarcata, no v sastoto vreme toj ne zabravjase da chrani i telesno onezi, za koito
vidja, ce imat nuzda ot takava chrana.
Macedonian: Toj go hranese narodot so slovoto, onoj vistinski leb sto gi ukrepuva
srcata, no vo isto vreme toj ne zaboravase da gi hrani i telesno onie sto gledase oti
imaat nuzda ot takva hrana.
'He nourished the people with the word, that real bread which fortifies the heart, but
at the same time he did not forget to nourish also with earthly food those who he
realized needed such food'
A literal translation of the Bulgarian: 'He nourished people-the with words-the, that
real bread, which fortifies hearts-the, but in same-the time he not forgot that [he]
nourishes also physically those, about whom [he] saw, that [they] have need of such
food.'
A literal translation of the Macedonian: 'He it nourished people-the with word-the,
that real bread that them fortifies hearts-the, but at [the] same time he not forgot
that [he] them nourishes also physically those that [he] looked/saw that [they] have
need of such food'.
With amusement
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
2003-08-25 21:46:06 UTC
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Ilinden, the Rikohead is so flummoxed and full of excrements in his skull that he
doesn't know what he really is.
In the heart of his heart, however, he is infinitely grateful that you remind him of
his origins.

WolfWolf
The European
FTCOGIANS OR TURKOGREKI
OR KOZI
have no connections whatsoever with HELLENES who speak only theTURKISH
language because they are TURKS OR TURKOGREKI OR FTCOGIANS FROM THE FTCOG
Post by Grigor Gatchev
Thank you
You just proved how bulgar you are and what everybody knows: Fyromians
have no connections whatsoever with macedonians who speak only the greek
language because they are hellenes.
Now show us and your turkish knowledge to prove that you are a turkobulgar..
Post by rikopal
learn something
Bulgarian: Toj chranese naroda sas slovoto, onzi istinski chljab, kojto ukrepva
sarcata, no v sastoto vreme toj ne zabravjase da chrani i telesno onezi, za koito
vidja, ce imat nuzda ot takava chrana.
Macedonian: Toj go hranese narodot so slovoto, onoj vistinski leb sto gi ukrepuva
srcata, no vo isto vreme toj ne zaboravase da gi hrani i telesno onie sto gledase oti
imaat nuzda ot takva hrana.
'He nourished the people with the word, that real bread which fortifies the heart, but
at the same time he did not forget to nourish also with earthly food those who he
realized needed such food'
A literal translation of the Bulgarian: 'He nourished people-the with words-the, that
real bread, which fortifies hearts-the, but in same-the time he not forgot that [he]
nourishes also physically those, about whom [he] saw, that [they] have need of such
food.'
A literal translation of the Macedonian: 'He it nourished people-the with word-the,
that real bread that them fortifies hearts-the, but at [the] same time he not forgot
that [he] them nourishes also physically those that [he] looked/saw that [they] have
need of such food'.
With amusement
WolfWolf
The European
Dennis Byzantinos
2003-08-28 14:18:22 UTC
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Post by WolfWolf
Ilinden, the Rikohead is so flummoxed and full of excrements in his skull that he
doesn't know what he really is.
In the heart of his heart, however, he is infinitely grateful that you remind him of
his origins.
WolfWolf
The European
_I_ will be infinitely grateful if both you stop crossposting all that
crap to soc.culture.bulgaria.
That's a wierd request Grigor,

Instead of dealing with issues that concern Bulgaria you want to hide from them?

(if you ignore it,it will go away?)
Later,
Dennis
Anri Erinin
2003-08-28 20:31:43 UTC
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Is this the way you invite someone to a discussion?

GOAT crossposter!

ESAD!
Post by Dennis Byzantinos
Post by WolfWolf
Ilinden, the Rikohead is so flummoxed and full of excrements in his skull that he
doesn't know what he really is.
In the heart of his heart, however, he is infinitely grateful that you remind him of
his origins.
WolfWolf
The European
_I_ will be infinitely grateful if both you stop crossposting all that
crap to soc.culture.bulgaria.
That's a wierd request Grigor,
Instead of dealing with issues that concern Bulgaria you want to hide from them?
(if you ignore it,it will go away?)
Later,
Dennis
--
Message-ID: <***@mb-m26.aol.com>
If Sobig is really a spamming virus, we really don't need to know
who wrote it, we just need to know who is spamming with it.
(I'm sure they will be happy tell who wrote it during the 'interview'
phase...)
Grigor Gatchev
2003-08-29 16:15:11 UTC
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Post by Dennis Byzantinos
Post by WolfWolf
Ilinden, the Rikohead is so flummoxed and full of excrements in his skull that he
doesn't know what he really is.
In the heart of his heart, however, he is infinitely grateful that you remind him of
his origins.
WolfWolf
The European
_I_ will be infinitely grateful if both you stop crossposting all that
crap to soc.culture.bulgaria.
That's a wierd request Grigor,
Instead of dealing with issues that concern Bulgaria you want to hide from them?
(if you ignore it,it will go away?)
Later,
Dennis
What are these issues that concern Bulgaria here, Dennis? Who is
flummoxed, who is full of excrements, etc?

If anyone of them has anything serious to say, and is able to do it in
an acceptable wording, they are welcome. But their personal flame
interchange very certainly does not concern Bulgaria.

Still, thank you for the good intention.
Dennis Byzantinos
2003-09-02 14:21:54 UTC
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Fuck you spammer!
Just exactly which part of my post do you consider spamming?????

Dennis
Post by Dennis Byzantinos
Post by WolfWolf
Ilinden, the Rikohead is so flummoxed and full of excrements in his skull that he
doesn't know what he really is.
In the heart of his heart, however, he is infinitely grateful that you remind him of
his origins.
WolfWolf
The European
_I_ will be infinitely grateful if both you stop crossposting all that
crap to soc.culture.bulgaria.
That's a wierd request Grigor,
Instead of dealing with issues that concern Bulgaria you want to hide from them?
(if you ignore it,it will go away?)
Later,
Dennis
y***@albanian.com
2003-09-02 16:47:03 UTC
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Mexhit Kokalari

Kush është Mexhit Kokalari

Mexhit Kokalari, profesor i Ismail Kadaresë dhe Dritëro Agollit në vitet
1947-1952, është autori i materialit që ”Panorama” po publikon sot në
speciale. Kokalari është lindur në Gjirokastër në vitin 1924, ka mbaruar
arsmin e lartë për jurisprudencë dhe ka ushtruar profesionin e avokati dhe
arsimtarit. Ka luftuar për çlirimin e atdheut nga okupatorët dhe është autor
i mjaft librave dhe artikujve të botuar brenda dhe jashtë vendit. Është
marrë kryesisht me studime historike dhe ka shkruar për historinë që nga
lashtësia dhe deri në ditët tona, duke u mbështetur në materiale arkivore,
bibliografike, folklorike dhe arkeologjike. Kokalari është mbledhës i vjetër
i folklorit dhe themelues i lëvizjes kombëtare për bashkimin e shqiptarëve.
Aktualisht jeton në Tiranë dhe nëpërmjet studimeve të tij kërkon të hedh
dritë mbi historinë e popullit tonë, të cilën armiqtë e kombit mundohen ta
mohojnë. Ai është anëtar i Lidhjes së Shkrimtarëve dhe Artistëve që në
krijimin e saj. Studimi për Buonapartin është njëri prej më interesantëve.
Ai zbulon një pjesë të panjohur për shqiptarët nga jeta e perandorit më të
famshëm në të gjitha kohërat.


Për ne, shqiptarët, nuk ka rëndësi sa qëndron në këmbë teza e qenies me
origjinë arbëreshe të familjes Bonaparti. Për ne, ka rëndësi konsiderata që
kanë të huajt për të shfaqur heronjtë e tyre me origjinë shqiptare. E kemi
për detyrë që këtë ”konsideratë të mirë” ta mbajmë.

Kjo për ne meriton përgëzim. Në studime e punime të ndryshme me vlerë
historike ose në relacione e kronika ngjarjesh, historianë të huaj dhe
personalitete politike e shoqërore, kanë dhënë gjatë shekujve mendime të
shumta për popullin tonë, për shpirtin liridashës dhe atdhetar të tij. Në
këta autorë rreshtohet edhe personaliteti i shquar i kohës, historiani i
dëgjuar francez Adolf Thieres, që ka shkruar dhe historinë e revolucionit
francez dhe që më vonë u bë President i Francës.

Prejardhja arbëreshe
Në kujtimet e tij, që pasqyrohen në librin e Ahmet Myfitit bej Libohovës,
”Tependli Ali Pasha” botuar në Kajro, më 1903, Adolf Thieres shkruan: ”Kur
Josef Bonaparti, vëllai i madh i Napoleon Bonapartit u bë mbret i Napolit më
1806, shqiptarë të Napolit që shkuan për t’i uruar mirëseardhjen u tha:
”Edhe familja Bonaparti është me origjinë arbëreshe”.

Ahmet Myfit Libohova, në veprën e tij lidhur me këto shpjegime të Adolf
Thiersit shton: ”Sipas hetimeve të bëra del se është e vërtetë që mbiemri
Kallomeri që do të thotë në greqisht ”anë e mirë”, që u ndërrua në italisht
”buona parte” është mbiemri i Napoleon Bonapartit. Kjo familje shqiptare me
shumë atdhetarë të tjerë u vendosën në Korsikë, formuan një fshat dhe
gjithashtu është fakt se paraardhësi i Napoleon Bonapartit është prej këtij
fshati arbëresh”. Këto shpjegime i jep në librin e tij Libohova. Mbi
origjinën e familjes Bonaparti na hedh dritë të mjaftueshme dhe profesor
Robert d’Angely me origjinë nga Korsika në veprën e tij ”Enigmat e origjinës
së racave dhe të gjuhëve të pellazgëve, arianëve, helenëve, etruskëve,
grekëve dhe shqiptarëve”. Libër prej shtatë vëllimesh dhe mbi 30 vjet punë.
Në faqen 113-117 shkruan se Napoleon Bonaparti ishte shqiptar, ashtu si
ishte Aleksandri i Madh dhe Skënderbeu. Ky profesor i dëgjuar korsikan shton
se mbiemrin i vjetër i Bonapartit ka qenë ”Kalë-miri” dhe jo Kalimeros, ana
e mirë si e bënë grekët. Sipas enciklopedisë së madhe greke ”Piros” vëllimi
i tretë, Athinë 1929, faqe 413-425, thuhet se: Shtrirja e shqiptarëve në
drejtim të peloponezit (Moresë) është zgjeruar nga shekulli XIV.

Enciklopedia greke
Sipas kësaj enciklopedie, në Peloponez u krijuan krahina banimi të reja si:
Mani, Bardhunja, Lala; Filati, Hekali, Lopësi. Edhe sot dihet që një lagje e
Himarës është shpërngulur në krahinën e Pelopenezit dhe krijuan Manin.
Shqiptarët qëndruan në Peloponez (në more) midis 100 vjet rreth vendasve
grekë dhe nuk duhet të na duket çudi në qoftë se mbiemri i Napoleonit
(Kalë-mirë) është grekëzuar shtrembërisht nga grekët në kallomeros (ana e
mirë). Bëni dhe krahasimin që i bëjnë grekët kalit të Lekës së Madh që e
quajtën Kokëmadh. Me zbritjen e vazhdueshme të ushtrive të panumërta osmane
në Peloponez, një pjesë e shqiptarëve u largua nëpërmjet detit drejt Italisë
së Jugut. Ata u shpërndanë dhe në ishujt e saj arritën deri në Korsikë, ku u
përzjenë me banorët e lashtë italianë. Atje ndërtuan dhe vendbanimet e tyre.
Nuk duhet të duket çudi në qoftë se stërgjyshi i Napoleon Bonapartit (sipas
shpjegimeve që i jep ish-presidenti francez, Adolf Thiers) të jetë me
origjinë nga ky fshat arbëresh i Korsikës. Dihet historikisht se edhe
avokati i dëgjuar korsikan, mbrojtës i Gjergj Dimitrovit, në gjyqin e
Laipcigut, De Moro Xhaferi ka qenë nga ky katund arbëresh. Kjo faktohet nga
vetë goja e tij kur iu përgjigj jurisë franceze: ”Unë do të shkoj në Laipcig
dhe do të mbroj Gjergj Dimitrovin. Në qoftë se do të më vrasin, haka do të
më merret si arbëresh që jam me origjinë”. Studiuesi, zoti Auron Tare,
shpjegon: në vijim ta artikullit ”ish-presidenti i Francës, Adolf Thiers:
”Napoleon Buonaparti është arbëresh” të shkruara nga zoti Mexhit Kokalari do
të doja të shtoja disa fakte mjaft interesante, të cilat i japin nuanca
prejardhjes së një prej kolosëve të historisë botërore, gjeneralit
Buonaparte. Prejardhjes e familjes Buonaparte nga krahina e Peloponezit të
Greqisë dhe më saktë nga zona malore e Manit, e banuar kryesisht nga familje
arbëreshe të shpërngulura nga zonat shqiptare me ardhjen e turqve është
përmendur nga disa personalitete të letrave të kulturës franceze. Por,
dëshmia më interesante vjen nga një aristokrate franceze me origjinë
maniote, dukesha D’Abrantes, lindur në Montpelje me emrin Josephine Permon
Stefanopuli de Comene. Ajo vinte nga një familje me origjinë maniote, e cila
për shkak të gjakmarrjeve të shumta me klanet e fuqishme të Manit, vendosi
të shpërngulej dhe të vendosej në Korsikë, ashtu si shumë familje të tjera
nga Mani, 150 vjet para periudhës së Napoleonit. Dukesha D’Abrantes e njihte
mjaft mirë gjeneralin Buonaparte. Ajo bënte pjesë në rrethin e ngushtë të
tij, jo pse ishte martuar me një nga gjeneralët më besnikë të Napoleonit,
Junotin, por edhe sepse e ëma e saj kishte qenë një kohë të gjatë e dashura
e Buonapartit dhe e kishte ndihmuar atë në kohë të vështira të sundimit të
tij në Paris. Dukesha D’Abrantes, e cila më vonë u bë një mbështetëse e
flaktë e rojalistëve, ishte ndoshta burimi më i informuar për jetën e
gjeneralit në atë kohë, në kujtimet e saj të përmbledhura në 28 volume, me
titull ”Revolucioni, Perandoria dhe restaurimi”, ajo formuloi teorinë e
pranuar nga historianët e kohës të prejardhjes korsikano-maniote të familjes
Buonaparte. Ishte ajo, e cila deklaroi se mbiemri Buonaparte ishte një
italianizim i fjalës greke kalimeros dhe se Buonaparte nuk ishte nga
Trevizo, por nga Mani. Gjithashtu, ajo përmend një fakt tjetër mjaft
interesant. Gjatë fushatës së Italisë, gjenerali papritmas vizitohet nga dy
të dërguar nga beu i Manit. Ky i fundit, duke i kujtuar Napoleonit
prejardhjen e tij, i lutej për ndihmë, duke i ofruar gjeneralit mbështetje
të plotë të trevës së Peloponezit, në rast të një sulmi francez në Greqi
kundër turqve. Napoleoni, i cili në atë kohë seriozisht po mendonte për një
sulm kundër Perandorisë Otomane në Evropë, ndihma e sundimtarit të së vetmes
zonë të lirë në Greqi, ishte mjaft joshëse. Një lidhje ideale midis Francës
dhe Manit. Kështu, i shtyrë dhe nga sentimentalizmi për origjinën e familjes
së tij, në 12 termidor të vitit V, ai dha urdhër nga kuarteri i tij në
Milano, që Dimo Stephanopuli dhe vëllai i tij, Nikola, të udhëtonin për në
Mani. Të dy vëllezërit Stephanopuli u pritën me mjaft bujë nga Zanet Beu,
Beu i Manit, dhe udhëheqësit e tjerë maniotë. Ata qëndruan për disa muaj në
këtë krahinë kryengritëse, duke marrë pjesë edhe në një betëjë detare kundër
flotës së Kapidan Pashës. Vëllezërit Stephanopulis, gjatë kthimit të tyre në
Francë, i sollën gjeneralit besimin e Beut të Manit për besnikëri dhe një
statujë antike, dhuratë nga Zanet Beu, por, gjatë mungesës së tyre,
Napoleoni e kishte ndryshuar politikën rreth çështjes turke. Kështu u mbyll
kapitulli interesant i gjeneralit me Manin. Këto dy fakte interesante, që
flasin për lidhjet e Napoleonit me Manin, janë përforcuese. Dukesha
D´Abrantes është burim i sugurtë, po të marrim parasysh që tezat e saj ishin
pranuar nga historianët e kohës. Gjithashtu, fakt tjetër është që, derisa
ishte gjallë gjenerali, nuk e përgënjeshtroi tezën e dukeshës për origjinën
e tij, mund të ketë qenë nga zona malore e Manit.

Shqipja dhe Napoleoni
Në qoftë se pranohen shpjegimet e personalitetit të shquar politikan dhe
historian francez Adolf Thiers, lind pyehtja: Napoleon Bonaparti, a e njihte
gjuhen shqipe. Këtë nuk mund ta themi, pasi nuk kemi dokumente. Sipas
profesorit linguist të shquar Eqerem Çabej: Një nga gjeneralët më besnikë të
Napoleon Bonapartit, ka qenë edhe mareshalli Ney; gjeneral me trup të lartë,
që në gjatësi ia kalonte shumë Napoleonit. Thuhet, se kur e qortonte
Napoleoni Ney-n do t´ja shkurtonte ndryshimin që kishte në trup me të. Këto
fjalë, ai i shoqëronte dhe me disa sharje të një gjuhe të huaj, që mareshal
Ney dhe shokët nuk e kuptonin. Cila ishte kjo gjuhë? Për përgjigjen e kësaj
pyetje mund t´i referoheni edhe veprës së Leo Freundrich, “Gologota
Shqiptare”, në faqen 37. Edhe një tjetër pyetje e bren kureshtjen tonë. A e
njihte Napoleon Bonaparti historinë e Shqipërisë? Edhe kjo mbetet enigmë për
mungesë të dokumenteve. Megjithëse në hartat topografike, ushtarake të tij,
trevat tokësore që shtriheshin qysh nga Sllovenia deri në Detin Jon, i
kishte quajtur “Iliri”. Është fakt, që edhe sot në Slloveni, duke u nisur
nga ky emërtim i tokave të tyre, sllovenët, mjaft hotele dhe rrugë i kanë
emërtuar me fjalën “Iliri”, si në Lubjanë etj. Logjike është të pyetet se a
e njihte Napoleon Bonaparti se shqiptarët kishin zakone të përbashkëta me
korsikanët? Këtë nuk mund ta thuash me siguri, megjithatë ka argumente që
vijnë në këtë linjë. Nga të dhënat e mbledhura, thuhet se ky perandor i
lindur në Korsikë, konkretisht në Ajaccio, e ka ditur se shqiptarët dhe
korsikanët kanë zakone të përbashkëta në lidhje me besën, hakmarrjen,
mikëpritjen etj.

Buonaparti: Ruhuni nga Ali Pashai
Po të kujtojmë “Vendetta” Balzak-Mateo Falkoni-Prosper Merime, apo dhe
filmin “Barbaxhia” vërtetohen këto që themi. Njëkohësisht për të mbrojtur
përfaqësuesit e tij, si Pukëvillin e të tjerë, në shtetin autonom të
pashallëkut shqiptar të Janinës së Ali Pashë Tepelenës, nuk ishin të rastit
këshillimet e vazhdueshme që Napoleon Bonaparti i jepte konsullit të vet që
të ruhej nga dinakëritë e Aliut, duke i thënë: “Ruaju në qoftë se nuk ta ka
hedhur”. Si shpjegohen masakrat që kanë kryer forcat franceze në Egjipt, ku
midis të masakruarëve ka pasur edhe shqiptarë? Sipas shpjegimeve të profesor
Petraq Pepo, historian i njohur, lidhur me ekspeditën e ushtarakëve të
Napoleonit në Egjipt, mësohet se ushtarët francezë kanë zhvilluar luftime të
përgjakshme me vendasit, sidomos në Tabor, gjatë pranverës së vitit 1799.
Gjithashtu, beteja të përgjakshme janë zhvilluar edhe në ujërat territoriale
të Egjiptit, si për shembull në afërsi të Abukirit etj. Atje, forcat detare
franceze, të komanduara nga admirali Brueys, u ndeshën rreptazi me forcat
detare angleze të komanduara nga admirali i dëgjuar Orcio Nelson. Në të
gjitha këto luftime detare u vra dhe admirali francez Brueys. Edhe në
luftimet tokësore, francezët pësuan humbje të mëdha në ushtarë, sepse nuk
ishin mësuar me terrene të tilla afrikane. Atje u vra edhe gjenerali i
dalluar Kleber. Forcat ushtarake frenceze, të egërsuara, me në krye
gjeneralin Andreossi, kërkonin me këmbëngulje të arrinin fitoren, duke mos
kursyer kështu edhe masakrat masive. Midis ushtarëve vendas për mbrojtjen e
Egjiptit, ka patur edhe mjaft luftëtarë shqiptarë. Ta vazhdonin t´i mbronin
me trimëri kështjellat që u ishin besuar. Komanda ushtarake franceze, me në
krye Andreossin, në pamundësi për t´i hedhur në dorë kështjellat me forcën e
armëve, u premtoi të rrethuarëve, luftëtarëve shqiptarë, si të huaj që ishin
se do t´i linin të lirë të largoheshin së bashku me armët e tyre, mjaft që
ata të dorëzonin kështjellat. Shqiptarët e besuan një gjë të tillë dhe dolën
kështu nga kështjellat të armatosur, por gjeneral Andreossi, i preu në besë,
i çarmatosi rrugës dhe një pjesë të mirë të tyre e pushkatoi në deltën e
Nilit. Thuhet se Napoleon Bonaparti, kur u vu në dijeni, e dënoi pabesinë e
gjeneralit të tij, dhe e përkufizonte këtë fitore me masakër me këto fjalë:
“Ushtari francez nuk është mësuar të korrë fitoren mbi kundërshtarët, duke i
mashtruar dhe çarmatosur në befasi”. Njëkohësisht, këtij gjenerali i mori
edhe medaljonin prej gurësh të çmuar që vetë ja kishte dhënë. Napoleon
Bonaparti, me gjithë marrëveshjet e ftohta që kishte me Ali Pashë Tepelenën,
më vonë u lidhën me një miqësi të ngushtë. Ky perandor i Francës, në
kundërshtim me dëshirat e Stambollit, dërgoi në Janinë konsujt e tij. Këtë
qytet e quante kryeqytetin e Shqipërisë. Napoleoni ishte nga të parët që e
kuptoi se Ali Pashë Tepelena, çdo ditë e më shumë e largonte pashallëkun e
tij nga influenca e Sulltanit, duke e kthyer atë në një shtet autonom
shqiptar. Aliu, sytë ia kishte drejtuar Evropës. Ai pranoi të zbatohet në
shtetin e tij legjislacioni frëng, i barazimit, ku myslimanët të kishin të
drejta të barabarta me të krishterët. Franca dërgoi tek Ali Pasha
specialistë për organizimin e shtetit dhe të ushtrisë, e cila u zgjerua në
kohë lufte deri në pesëdhjetëmijë ushtarë. Napoleoni në Janinë ngriti
fonderi për derdhje topash të çdo kalibri, armë të ndryshme si dhe punishte
për prodhim baruti. Franca e pajisi Aliun me anije lufte, organizoi mjetet e
komunikacionit dhe rendin me organizatorë të tij. Në pashallëkun e Janinës
kudo u vendos qetësia. Lidhur me miqësinë familjare që ka patur Napoleon
Bonaparti me atë të Ali Pashë Tepelenës, përveç të dhënave gojore, na
konkretizohen dhe me orenditë shtëpiake që kemi gjetur në banesën e Myfit
Bej Libohovës, konkretisht një servis çaji dhe kafeje, servis blu me gërmën
iniciale “N” të Napoleon Bonapartit, si dhe dy piktura me bojë vaji të Ali
Pashë Tepelenës me sy bojëqelli të piktorëve të njohur francezë, si Dypre
etj. Këto të dhëna të Napoleon Bonapartit, i ishin dhuruar Ali Pashë
Tepelenës dhe e motra e tij, Shanishaja, këto dhurata ja ka dhuruar gjyshit
të Myfit Bej Libohovës, Sulejman Pashës, me të cilin ishte martuar. Madje
edhe varri i motrës së Ali Pashës, Shanishasë, ndodhet në Libohovë.
Grigor Gatchev
2003-09-03 18:35:54 UTC
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Spamming again?

Please stop that. Your spam is of no interest to soc.culture.bulgaria.

[huge cut to save some bandwidth]
Grigor Gatchev
2003-09-04 17:09:40 UTC
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why u are posting to soc.culture.albanian?!
In response to your original message in soc.culture.bulgaria (among
the other NGs), since I don't know if you read it.

Once again, please don't spam soc.culture.bulgaria.

Thanks in advance.
y***@albanian.com
2003-09-02 16:48:36 UTC
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Nga VETON SURROI

1.
Naseri, një shok imi i gjimnazit, ka banuar në të njëjtën shtëpi, relikt i
Prishtinës së vjetër. Me shtëpinë do të identifikoheshin të gjithë miqtë e
gjyshit të tij, pastaj të babait, e së fundi edhe ne, të gjeneratës së
Naserit. Një prej shtëpive të rralla të prishtinasve (prishtinalive, në
zhargonin e qytetit), nuk ishte as monument arkitektonik, e as vend ku
kishte ndodhur ndonjë ngjarje historike. E kalbur prej kohësh, ishte shtëpi
ku kishte lindur Naseri dhe motrat e tij, pastaj edhe fëmijët e Naserit,
kishte shërbyer edhe si dyqan automekaniku një kohë, dhe së fundit kishte
përmbushur nevojën e vet themelore që të shkatërrohet, për të ndërtuar në
të, një shtëpi më funksionale për nevojat e një familjeje që pos fëmijëve,
do të kujdesej edhe për pleqtë. Shtëpia kishte mbetur si një lloj oazë
memorjesh, të kohës kur prishtinasit me të madhe u shpërngulën (me dhunë) në
Turqi në vitet pesëdhjetë; mbetën pas disa familje dhe shumë shtëpi, të
shitura për më pak para se një veturë e asaj kohe. Katër vjet pas luftës,
Naseri kishte nxjerrë të hollat e kursyera nga mërgimi në Suedi dhe kishte
filluar, siç e do rendi nga një njeri i familjes që e ka kaluar mbi një
shekull në këtë qytet, të kërkojë leje për rimëkëmbjen e shtëpisë së vjetër.
Me këtë, shtëpia e Naserit u kandidua për metaforë të Prishtinës,
gjegjësisht, Kosovës së sotme.
2.
Në katër vitet e kaluara nuk mori kush leje për çfarëdo ndërtimi dhe ndërtoi
si deshi e ku deshi. Leja më e cituar ka qenë ajo e “Bajram Begut” (përdorim
negativ i emrit të Bajram Currit si sinonim force, gjegjësisht anarkie).
Naseri nuk e deshi këtë, por një leje komune, dhe atëherë i dolën sheshi dy
gjëra që nuk i priste. Komuna i kërkoi një taksë të madhe për lejen e
rimëkëmbjes së shtëpisë së rrënuar, në kohën kur nuk kishte paguar kush një
cent për mbi pesë mijë ndërtimet e bëra në këtë qytet, e më vonë, pasi
kishte paguar taksën, punëtorët komunalë do t’ia prishnin një pjesë të
ndërtimit të bërë, sepse e pengonte pamjen e ndërtesave të tjera përreth, që
të gjitha të ngrehura pa leje. Qytetari i ndërgjegjshëm Naseri, pas katër
vjetësh kuptoi atë që disa prej nesh kishim kohë që po kuptonim; Prishtina
nuk është e tij, si prishtinas, si qytetar. Për t’u kualifikuar si
prishtinas, Naserit i mungonin disa parakushte. Të mos ishte i lindur në
Prishtinë, as ai e as ndonjëri anëtar i familjes. Të kishte ardhur në
Prishtinë posaçërisht në katër vitet e fundit. Të uzurponte cilëndo pjesë të
qytetit, në emër të luftës së kaluar, paqes së ardhshme me komshinjtë apo që
të dyja së bashku. Të ishte demonstruar me theks të spikatur shqiptimi të
fjalës “po” në formën “py”. Të trajtonte pushtetin seriozisht, vetëm kur t’i
fliste serbisht apo kur si gjuhë normale komunikimi të përdorte kërbaçin. Të
mendonte se të mirat e përbashkëta janë të gjitha ato që mund të vidhen,
përfshirë edhe parkun e qytetit, ndërsa prona private tërë ajo që mund të
mbrohet me forcë.
3.
Prishtina e Naserit, me kopshtin e tij të kumbullave, ka shkuar së bashku me
shtëpinë e tij erëmykur. Prishtina është e hajnave që erdhën në pushtet
menjëherë pas luftës me emrin e Qeverisë së përkohshme, e hajnave që i
zgjodhëm në zgjedhjet e para demokratike në jetën tonë, e burokratëve dhe
hajnave ndërkombëtarë me të cilët u vodh së bashku. Prishtina është e
shitësve të muzikës së keqe, kombinimit të fundërrinës në muzikë greke,
turke, serbe e shqiptare që terrorizojnë kalimtarët në rrugën “Nënë Terezë”.
Prishtina është e familjeve që mbajnë pastër shtëpinë e tyre dhe e hedhin
bërllokun prej katit të pestë, drejt e në rrugë. Prishtina është e territ:
jo e territ paraelektrik kur në shtëpinë e Naserit kishte llamba vajguri,
por e territ bashkëkohor, kur nuk mund të menaxhohet diçka që ishte arritur
para pesëdhjetë vjetësh në qytetin e tij, prodhimi dhe distribuimi i
energjisë elektrike. Prishtina, nuk është e Naserit, është e indiferencës,
është e ndjenjës se edhe ashtu të gjitha punët shkojnë pus, pra çka ka
Prishtina të bëhet më e mirë. Dhe fundja, jo që shkon pus tash: prej kohës
së gjyshit të Naserit, çdo pushtet ka shkatërruar diçka në këtë qytet të
shëmtuar, vetëm për të dëshmuar se mund të bëhet edhe më i shëmtuar.
4.
Kur shkoi Naseri në Suedi, kishin filluar t’i përzënë shqiptarët nga
pushteti. Kur u kthye nga Suedia, përpiqeshin t’i përzinin nga Kosova. Tash,
ata që i bënë këto dy lëvizje nuk janë këtu. Shqiptarët e përzënë nga
pushteti dhe Kosova u kthyen në pushtet e Kosovë; dikund në tërë këtë lëmsh
Naseri humbi qytetin e vet.
Anastassios Retzios
2003-08-19 21:47:17 UTC
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Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
Dimitri

I do not believe you are Greek because, if you were, you would have
not used the term "don't be fooled by our politicians". Politicians
in Greece never spearheaded this issue which has been and is a
grassroots issue. And many of us in Macedonia do not have to listen
to anybody because we had members of our families who were involved in
the fight for the Greek Macedonia. And if you were Greek you would
have not have used the weird time period of 1910-1914 because it means
nothing. The struggle for Macedonia between Greek and Bulgarian bands
in the countryside occured mainly between 1903 to 1908 and the Balkan
wars took place in 1912 to 1913. Other important dates in the history
of Macedonia is the Bulgarian occupation of much of the area between
1915 and 1918 during the period of WWI (when the trenches ran just to
the North of Thessaloniki) and so on and so forth. Being as ignorant
as you are of Greek history, do not come here proposing to "open our
eyes" where yours are so tightly shut.

ADR
Ilinden
2003-08-20 02:04:51 UTC
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Tashko Retchkov open up your prazna tikva.
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Lithoxoou

The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the Macedonian organization BMPO
(Vamero). The Metropolitan of Kostur, Karavangeli, paid him 10 liras monthly to leave the BMPO
organization and to join the Greek side and to fight against the Macedonians.

While in Gabresh, Melas said that the villagers did not speak even one word of Greek. Melas would
wish the villagers a good evening by saying dobra vecher in Macedonian.

Saturday, March 20, 1904 in Oshtima (oschima) Melas said that he tried to learn a few Macedonian
words so that he could speak to the inhabitants of the village and bribe them.

In the morning of June 9, 1904, Karavangelis sent Turkish troops from Kostur to Rula. The guide was
Pavle Kirovski from Zhelevo. This was to catch Kote Hristov because Karavangelis wa suspicious of
the communication between Kote and Koleti. Kote was apprehended and put in jail, in Kostur, Korcha
and Bitola. Karavangelis agreed to free Kote if he would become a guide for the Turks. Kote refused
and was hanged September 27, 1905 in Bitola.

September 17, 1904 Melas went to Prekopana and took as prisoners the teacher and priest. Outside of
the village they were killed by Pirzas, Katsamakas, and Barbadreas.

February 17, 1905 Mihalis Tsontos went to the Macedonian village of Mogila, Kostur. In 1926 the
Mogila village name was changed to Ano Perivolion.

Kaoudis killed 5 Macedonians in the outskirts of Zagorichani.

Vangelis Galianos slaughtered 12 Macedonians at Harachari Lakko on March 7, 1905.

On March 14, 1905 a Macedonian priest was murdered in Blatsa, Kostur.

The true story of how Pavlos Melas was killed was told by Petro Hatsitasis in 1927, in Statitsa. In the
home of Kantzaki. Hatsitasis was also hidden in the home. Volanis said only one gun shot was heard and
then groan. Lakis Pirsas was the murderer of Melas, and also stole his bag full of liras. He left the battle
and disappeared. He re-appeared the next summer in Macedonia. The older people from Statitsa know
very well that Pirsas killed Melas and not a Turkish bullet.

The Bloody Wedding in Zelenich: On Sunday, November 13 the Macedonian priest was at the wedding
of his niece. Katehaki and Kaoudis were looking for the house of Stoyan Gotev. That is where the
wedding was being held. You could hear songs and music in Macedonian. Katehaki and Daoudis
entered the room, saw the bride and started shooting. They killed 47 men and 3 women. What
happened at this wedding is unforgettable and unforgivable to the people of Zelenich.

Vardas had in his mind to kill Macedonians from the village of Zagorichani. He got together with
Karavangeli who gave him the black list of Macedonians. The slaughter was to take place March 25,
1905, Varda and Karavitis had 180-200 men with them in their gang. In the morning of March 25,
1905, Varda went to the village, one of the men gave the signal with a trumpet call. And they then
attacked the village. They started to set fire to each house. The night became brighter than the day from
all the fires burning. The killing of the villagers and setting off bombs continued for 3 hours.

Raptis said that we had a feast with slaughtering the villagers, according to a man this was written in
Poulaka's diary.

The Turkish police were close by in Kumanichevo. They heard what had happened in Zagorichani and
went there. Varda and Karavitis, along with their gang, ran into the mountains taking 27 hostages with
them. They had left the village burning. The roads were filled with dead bodies.

Ilias Capetanakis said that as he was running through the village each path held at least 8-10 dead.
Women and children were wailing for their dead. The murderers continued the slaughter by killing the
hostages they had taken into the mountains.

Pavlos Patros had a knife and a bayonet and killed the hostages.

The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state that Greece liberated
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even liberate herself. Greeks
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek historians write only lies.
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-20 11:27:10 UTC
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"Ilinden" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote:...
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state that Greece liberated
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names, toponyms, ways, heroes, gods, dialect
and spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. Macedonians were
always Greeks. As for SlavoSkopians please read what their hero Dame Gruev
wrote: http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
WolfWolf
2003-08-20 12:26:28 UTC
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Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???

WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
2003-08-20 14:23:41 UTC
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Post by Yannis the Makedonian
...................................
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek
origin.
Post by WolfWolf
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
The name Ilinden is not Macedonian either.
And your detailed etymological analysis is where?
You might ask a true Macedonian for help.
I'm sure Ilinden himself would be a good choice.

WolfWolf
The European
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-20 21:47:12 UTC
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"WolfWolf" <***@email.net> wrote:
..............................
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
The name Ilinden is not Macedonian either.
And your detailed etymological analysis is where?
You might ask a true Macedonian for help.
I'm sure Ilinden himself would be a good choice.
WolfWolf
The European
I asked a Bulgarian and told me that Ilinden is the composition of the
words Ilia and den. Ilia stands for Ilia the prophet, a Jewish name that
passed to Bulgarian through Greek ( Christianity) and den in day. Ilinden
is the day of Ilia that is Julie the 20nth in Christian diary.
At that time at 1903 Bulgarians organized a revolution in Krushevo, they
failed, Turks killed mainly Vlachs ( =Greeks) because Bulgarians left the
site for Sofia and Dame Gruev sent the famous letter to his Bulgarian
brothers: http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
Be sure that the commentof my chum Ilinden, if any, will be an amount of
insults for Turko-Greki and alike.
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
WolfWolf
2003-08-20 22:42:32 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
..............................
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
The name Ilinden is not Macedonian either.
And your detailed etymological analysis is where?
You might ask a true Macedonian for help.
I'm sure Ilinden himself would be a good choice.
WolfWolf
The European
I asked a Bulgarian
And why didn't you ask a Chinese???
"Ilinden" appears in the international heraldry as a town or village in Macedonia with
its own arms:
http://www.ngw.nl/int/oveur/mac/mac.htm

And more about "Ilinden" is to be found here:
http://www.ilinden.mk/

Remember that you are fired!!

WolfWolf
The European
Ilinden
2003-08-21 02:10:46 UTC
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Jovanche Asparuh has nothing to do with ilinden. The Tatars in Bulgaria do
not recognize the seven nationalities living there ,they adopt the Grekiki or
Ftcogian policy they are uncivilized like you Mr. Alepiloglu.
Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
..............................
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
The name Ilinden is not Macedonian either.
And your detailed etymological analysis is where?
You might ask a true Macedonian for help.
I'm sure Ilinden himself would be a good choice.
WolfWolf
The European
I asked a Bulgarian and told me that Ilinden is the composition of the
words Ilia and den. Ilia stands for Ilia the prophet, a Jewish name that
passed to Bulgarian through Greek ( Christianity) and den in day. Ilinden
is the day of Ilia that is Julie the 20nth in Christian diary.
At that time at 1903 Bulgarians organized a revolution in Krushevo, they
failed, Turks killed mainly Vlachs ( =Greeks) because Bulgarians left the
site for Sofia and Dame Gruev sent the famous letter to his Bulgarian
brothers: http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
Be sure that the commentof my chum Ilinden, if any, will be an amount of
insults for Turko-Greki and alike.
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-21 08:19:28 UTC
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Post by Ilinden
Jovanche Asparuh has nothing to do with ilinden. The Tatars in Bulgaria do
not recognize the seven nationalities living there ,they adopt the Grekiki or
Ftcogian policy they are uncivilized like you Mr. Alepiloglu.
Ilinden
Kisses my chum.
All I know is Dame Gruev's letter sent to Sofia:
http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
Grigor Gatchev
2003-08-21 16:01:39 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ilinden
Post by Ilinden
Jovanche Asparuh has nothing to do with ilinden. The Tatars in Bulgaria
do
Post by Ilinden
not recognize the seven nationalities living there ,they adopt the
Grekiki or
Post by Ilinden
Ftcogian policy they are uncivilized like you Mr. Alepiloglu.
Ilinden
Kisses my chum.
http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
Oh God. Now there are seven (other) nationalities in Bulgaria
non-recognized. (Other than Turks, Jews, Greeks, Serbs, Romanians,
Armenians etc., who are recognized.)

It would be funny if it was not boring. With a proper scholing, these
guys would make excellent sci-fi writers. And with a counsel of not
plagiarizing - Great Serbs pipe this tune already for nearly a
century.

Oh, and I forgot the piece about Bulgarians abandoning their Tatar
alphabet and language in 9th century in favor of the Macedonian ones.
Probably the Brits also abandoned their Portugal alphabet and language
in 4th century in favor of the Australian ones...

I should be waiting for more discoveries in the world history by these
pals.

By the way, my fellow Russians declared me a plain liar because of
that fabulous pro-Macedonian document, discussed before. I am held
guilty now for a failed doctoral work...
y***@albanian.com
2003-08-21 17:36:47 UTC
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Nga Veton Surroi

1.
Në javën e tetë të bombardimeve të vitit 1999, Sergio Vieira de Mello nuk
lëvizte asnjë nerv të fytyrës ndërsa zyrtarët serb i shpjegonin në fshatin
Korishë se si “kriminelët e NATO-s “ po vrisnin civilë shqiptarë. Në fushën
e djegur, përballë rrugës, ca ditë më parë forcat serbe kishin detyruar
shqiptarët, hipur në traktorë, herë të shkonin kah Shqipërisë e herë të
ktheheshin (manovër, e cila më vonë do të zbulohej, ishte përdorur për të
lëvizur forcat serbe, e për të hutuar bombarderët e NATO-s) dhe në mbrëmje i
kishin detyruar të mblidhen, si mburojë e gjallë nga NATO-ja apo UÇK-ja.
Gati 90 shqiptarë u vranë, në incidentin më të rëndë me viktima civile,
gjatë fushatës së bombardimeve, dhe Vieira de Mellon, diplomatin brazilian
me përvojë në çdo krize lufte që mund të imagjinohej, nga Libani e deri në
Kamboxhë, zyrtarët serbë përpiqeshin ta bindnin se mu këto bomba janë arsye
pse gati një milion shqiptarë të Kosovës gjendeshin refugjatë jashtë
Kosovës. Pasi kishte dëgjuar me kortezi diplomatike, kishte kërkuar të
vizitojë një fshat shqiptar, të bisedonte me popullatën. I thanë që është
rrezik, se do ta vriste UÇK-ja, dhe prapë u dha një teori konspiracioni se
si UÇK-ja do ta fajësonte palën serbe për vrasjen e një funksionari të
OKB-së. Edhe pas disa insistimeve, nuk iu lejua hyrja në një fshat shqiptar.
Sergio, siç do ta njihja më vonë, u largua me protestë nga Kosova, duke
ndërprerë programin e sajuar nga autoritetet serbe dhe duke e përmendur këtë
fakt në konferencën për shtyp në Beograd. Prapë, pa asnjë shenjë grimase që
do të shënonte se çka mendon.
2.
Katër vjet e dy muaj para se të vritej në Bagdad, Sergio kishte arritur
sërish në Kosovë. Të dielën, më 13 qershor, katër xhipa të bardhë të OKB-së
do të hynin në lagjen e Vreshtave në Prishtinë, duke e vendosur UNMIK-un. Ca
ditë më pas, do ta takoja njeriun i cili duhej ta administronte Kosovën. Në
shtëpinë e madhe prishtinase, bëhej vend për zyrë, fjetje, ushqim dhe
mbledhje. Me kaq do të dispononte guvernatori i parë ndërkombëtar i Kosovës,
i cili duhej të vendoste çdo gjë, prej rendit dhe ligjit deri te korenti dhe
uji. Kolegu i tij, në pjesën ushtarake të misionit, gjenerali Jackson,
tashmë kishte mbi 20 mijë ushtarë me armatim të rëndë në dispozicion.
Përvoja e kishte bërë të vetëdijshëm për këtë diskrepancë mes misioneve
ushtarake dhe atyre civile. Madje, as që do të kishte shumë kohë për të
menduar për këtë gjë. Për misionin e tij në Prishtinë ishte njohtuar 48 orë
para nisjes, nga sekretari i përgjithshëm, Kofi Annan, i cili kishte besim
të plotë në njeriun që qe vullnetar për krizat më të rrezikshme në botë. Pas
një dite të gjatë takimesh, me një gotë uiski në dorë, bisedonim për
prioritetet e UNMIK-ut në Kosovë. E tërë vistra e problemeve ishte para tij,
prej atij se cili ligj duhet të sundojë dhe kush duhet ta zbatojë atë ligj,
deri te kush do të menaxhojë me korentin e ujin, tash kur forcat serbe po
largoheshin. Brenda disa ditëve, mbledhjeve intensive, konsultimeve, Sergio
kishte filluar ta vizatonte skemën administrative kosovare. Dhe këtë e bënte
ndërsa fillonte rekrutimi i stafit të OKB-së, fillonin trazirat e pasluftës,
ktheheshin të dëbuarit kosovarë, gjithnjë e më pak kishte rrymë dhe ujë dhe
ndërsa vetë kosovarët kishin filluar të ziheshin se cila është qeveria e
kosovarëve që do të ketë pushtetin.
3.
“Nuk jam evropian”. Ishte përgjigje e thjeshtë kur e pyeta çfarë janë gjasat
që titulli i tij “shef i përkohshëm” i UNMIK-ut të përjashtonte atë “të
përkohshëm”. Në balancin e forcave në OKB, fakti që Sergio ishte brazilian
do ta përjashtonte nga administrimi i Kosovës. Këtë post do ta kishte BE-ja
si donator më i madh, dhe si fuqi e cila “mbulon” politikisht këtë trevë.
Për herë të parë, pas disa javësh shoqërimi, me “Nuk jam evropian”, hetova
një dozë dëshpërimi te njeriu i cili prej kohësh kishte tejkaluar nocionet
gjeografike të identitetit. I lindur në Brazil, kishte hyrë në misionet e
OKB-së qysh si student, dhe kishte vazhduar ndërsa doktoronte në Sorbonne.
Kishte dy vende që do të quante shtëpi: i pari ishte vendi i krizës,
kudoqoftë në botë, e i dyti ishte atje ku do të shkonte kohë pas kohe, në
Paris te bashkëshortja. Njeri plot sharm natyral dhe inteligjencë të
spikatur ishte shquar posaçërisht me ruajtjen e gjakftohtësisë gjatë tërë
kohës, dhe përqëndrimit të plotë në mision, detyrën e marrë nga sekretari i
përgjithshëm. Ditë para largimit, ndërsa kosovarët ende ziheshin me atë se
kush prej tyre do ta qeveriste Kosovën, diplomati brazilian solli me
xhentilesë një copë letre, nënshkruar nga Annani ku thuhej se çdo gjë tashmë
ishte në duart e UNMIK-ut, prej vendimmarrjes ekzekutive e legjislative deri
te prona publike.
4.
Di prej miqve të përbashkët se misionin në Timorin lindor e mori plot gëzim.
Atë që nuk kishte arritur të bënte në Kosovë, si mision kulminant, do ta
bënte në vendin e vogël të porsaçliruar nga kolonializmi indonezian. Në
Timor, vend ku një e treta e popullatës ishte vrarë në gjenocidin mbi 20
-vjeçar, de Mello kishte prirë në natyrën e misioneve të reja të OKB-së,
ndërtim shtetësie. Kulminacioni i punës së tij ishte që këtë vend të
trishtuar ta shpinte në pavarësi. Dhe, nuk më habiti fakti se do ta merrte
ofertën që ta lërë për një kohë punën e Komisionerit për të Drejtat e
Njeriut, me tërë komoditetin e selisë në Gjenevë, që të kryesojë misionin e
OKB-së në Irakun e porsaçliruar nga Sadam Husseini, mision i cili nuk shihej
me shumë simpati fillimisht në Washington. Parmbrëmë, e tërë jeta e tij në
OKB, me listën e gjatë të rreziqeve, ka mundur të përmblidhet me orët e
fundit të jetës së tij. Bomba e cila kishte shkatërruar hotelin ku ishte
selia e përkohshme e Misionit e kishte mbuluar të gjallë Sergio Vieira de
Mellon. Me celular ai lajmëronte se ishte ende gjallë, duke pritur ndihmë.
Njeriu i cili dha 33 vjet jete të tij për të ndihmuar viktimat e luftërave
kalonte orë pas ore, minut, pas minuti, duke pritur ndihmë, madje ndihmë
prej atyre që kishte ardhur t’i ndihmojë.
5.
Një Adios të fundit njeriut që na u gjend pranë, kur kishim nevojë, si edhe
shumë të tjerëve. Adios njeriut që mbajti lart kuptimin e flamurit të
OKB-së, të atillë çfarë e dëshironim dhe e dëshirojmë.
Anastassios Retzios
2003-08-20 21:06:00 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
You idiot, Ilinden is not a toponym or personal name, it just refers
to the day of the rebellion by the prophet's name. Furthermore, it is
clear that Ioannis does not consider anything Slavic as being
Macedonian and regards the Slavic settlers as squatters in the area
not entitled to the assignment Macedonians by squatter rights only.
You may disagree with this notion (let's take a bet on this!!) but
this is the basic of his logic even if you deem it illogical.

It seems to me that you are simply busy entering comments in every
thread here!!

ADR
WolfWolf
2003-08-20 22:26:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anastassios Retzios
Post by Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
You idiot, Ilinden is not a toponym or personal name, it just refers
to the day of the rebellion by the prophet's name.
Hmmm .... I think that the main street in Skopje has the name "Bul. Ilindenska", which
makes it a toponym.
There is also a municipality with the name "Ilinden".
Very Macedonian, but certainly not very Greek.

I showed this very simple example in order to help Ioannis to get rid of his
absurdities.
You, Tassos, seem to be more attracted by them than by clear and transparent evidence.

WolfWolf
The European
Ilinden
2003-08-21 02:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Rechkov, somebody ask me what language do you speak? I said Macedonian, he asked my friend how
about you? the Russian man said Russian, a lady was sitting next to us she said I speak Slovenian.
I said to the person who ask the questions we have a nincompoop his name is Tashko Rechkov
according to him we should say slavic , and he said I'm a Portuguese and I speak Portuguese.
Rechkov when you ask a Russian what nationality are you he is going to tell you Russian not Slavic
, Rechkov you are discombobulated very bad.
Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by Anastassios Retzios
Post by Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
You idiot, Ilinden is not a toponym or personal name, it just refers
to the day of the rebellion by the prophet's name. Furthermore, it is
clear that Ioannis does not consider anything Slavic as being
Macedonian and regards the Slavic settlers as squatters in the area
not entitled to the assignment Macedonians by squatter rights only.
You may disagree with this notion (let's take a bet on this!!) but
this is the basic of his logic even if you deem it illogical.
It seems to me that you are simply busy entering comments in every
thread here!!
ADR
WolfWolf
2003-08-21 18:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Ilinden, he's caught in the web of his utter lies, and I would pity him if it wasn't
because of his unfriendly intentions.

WolfWolf
The European
Post by Ilinden
Rechkov, somebody ask me what language do you speak? I said Macedonian, he asked my
friend how
Post by Ilinden
about you? the Russian man said Russian, a lady was sitting next to us she said I
speak Slovenian.
Post by Ilinden
I said to the person who ask the questions we have a nincompoop his name is Tashko Rechkov
according to him we should say slavic , and he said I'm a Portuguese and I speak
Portuguese.
Post by Ilinden
Rechkov when you ask a Russian what nationality are you he is going to tell you
Russian not Slavic
Post by Ilinden
, Rechkov you are discombobulated very bad.
Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by Anastassios Retzios
Post by Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
You idiot, Ilinden is not a toponym or personal name, it just refers
to the day of the rebellion by the prophet's name. Furthermore, it is
clear that Ioannis does not consider anything Slavic as being
Macedonian and regards the Slavic settlers as squatters in the area
not entitled to the assignment Macedonians by squatter rights only.
You may disagree with this notion (let's take a bet on this!!) but
this is the basic of his logic even if you deem it illogical.
It seems to me that you are simply busy entering comments in every
thread here!!
ADR
Ilinden
2003-08-21 02:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Alepiloglu open your blind eyes, here are the Turkotatar names.Ilinden is a
pure Macedonian name do you the meaning of the word?
Subject: Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names
Here are the original Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names. Asparuh, Tervel,
Kardam, Komepej, Sevar, Kopmisosh, Vineh, Telets, Sabin, Umor, Toktu,
Pagan, Ditsehg, Tsok, Omirtag, Telerig. In the 9th century, the
Bulgarians adopted the Macedonian alphabet and language. They gave up on
their Turko-Tatar language and names.
Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
...................................
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek
origin.
Post by WolfWolf
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
The name Ilinden is not Macedonian either. Ask any Bulgarian to tell you.
As for my chum, if she has her brain safe, after she has read Dame Gruev's
letter in http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm
( you know: Is he Macedonian?? YOU asked !!) she would become Macedonian
and would change her name to Greek.
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-21 08:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ilinden
Alepiloglu open your blind eyes, here are the Turkotatar names.Ilinden is a
pure Macedonian name do you the meaning of the word?
Subject: Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names
Here are the original Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names. Asparuh, Tervel,
Kardam, Komepej, Sevar, Kopmisosh, Vineh, Telets, Sabin, Umor, Toktu,
Pagan, Ditsehg, Tsok, Omirtag, Telerig. In the 9th century, the
Bulgarians adopted the Macedonian alphabet and language. They gave up on
their Turko-Tatar language and names.
Ilinden
A straight comment on Dame Gruev's letter to Sofia, please, by some
SlavoSkopian that has the balls! ( I know, you, my chum, have no balls at
all).
Until then you might want to answer to: Plovdiv or Philippoupolis ??
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
WolfWolf
2003-08-21 18:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Alepiloglu open your blind eyes, here are the Turkotatar names.Ilinden is
a
Post by Ilinden
pure Macedonian name do you the meaning of the word?
Subject: Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names
Here are the original Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names. Asparuh, Tervel,
Kardam, Komepej, Sevar, Kopmisosh, Vineh, Telets, Sabin, Umor, Toktu,
Pagan, Ditsehg, Tsok, Omirtag, Telerig. In the 9th century, the
Bulgarians adopted the Macedonian alphabet and language. They gave up on
their Turko-Tatar language and names.
Ilinden
A straight comment on Dame Gruev's letter to Sofia, please
Here comes the straight comment for you:
http://www.webpersonal.net/lobonegro/atpc/

WolfWolf
The European
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-21 21:52:03 UTC
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Raw Message
"WolfWolf" <***@email.net> wrote:
.................................
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
A straight comment on Dame Gruev's letter to Sofia, please
http://www.webpersonal.net/lobonegro/atpc/
WolfWolf
The European
Vlaka !!

http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/documents/ilinden.htm

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...


Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.
The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"
Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV
This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in
Bitola,
and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "

Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
WolfWolf
2003-08-22 01:33:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.................................
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
A straight comment on Dame Gruev's letter to Sofia, please
http://www.webpersonal.net/lobonegro/atpc/
WolfWolf
The European
...Being in command of our people's movement,
Bre pezeveng, you are FIRED!!!

WolfWolf
The European
Ilinden
2003-08-21 23:57:09 UTC
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Raw Message
Jovanche how many times I have to tell you bre tikvar.
Plovdiv: The name of the city in Bulgaria is of Thracian origin, and
represents Pulpudava,. The Hellenes later changed the Thracian name as
Philippopolis. The Romans, however, called the settlement Trimontium,
'three hills;.
Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Alepiloglu open your blind eyes, here are the Turkotatar names.Ilinden is
a
Post by Ilinden
pure Macedonian name do you the meaning of the word?
Subject: Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names
Here are the original Bulgarian (Turko-Tatar) names. Asparuh, Tervel,
Kardam, Komepej, Sevar, Kopmisosh, Vineh, Telets, Sabin, Umor, Toktu,
Pagan, Ditsehg, Tsok, Omirtag, Telerig. In the 9th century, the
Bulgarians adopted the Macedonian alphabet and language. They gave up on
their Turko-Tatar language and names.
Ilinden
A straight comment on Dame Gruev's letter to Sofia, please, by some
SlavoSkopian that has the balls! ( I know, you, my chum, have no balls at
all).
Until then you might want to answer to: Plovdiv or Philippoupolis ??
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
Yannis the Makedonian
2003-08-23 08:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ilinden
Jovanche how many times I have to tell you bre tikvar.
Plovdiv: The name of the city in Bulgaria is of Thracian origin, and
represents Pulpudava,. The Hellenes later changed the Thracian name as
Philippopolis. The Romans, however, called the settlement Trimontium,
'three hills;.
Ilinden the SlavoSkopian
Ata girl !!
The Hellenes !! That is the Macedonians !!
Yannis
Macedonia, Greece
WolfWolf
2003-08-23 17:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ilinden
Jovanche how many times I have to tell you bre tikvar.
Plovdiv: The name of the city in Bulgaria is of Thracian origin, and
represents Pulpudava,. The Hellenes later changed the Thracian name as
Philippopolis. The Romans, however, called the settlement Trimontium,
'three hills;.
Ilinden the SlavoSkopian
The Hellenes !! That is not the Macedonians !!
Jovanche, you are FIRED!!

WolfWolf
The European
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-21 07:08:12 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
NO!!!You are confused again!!!Read sl....ow....ly....
'Ilinden' has nothing to do with Macedonia!!!.So don't expect any analysis!!!

'SALOON': the capital city of Moon!!!
Ilinden
2003-08-21 23:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
NO!!!You are confused again!!!Read sl....ow....ly....
'Ilinden' has nothing to do with Macedonia!!!.So don't expect any analysis!!!
'SALOON': the capital city of Moon!!!
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-25 08:25:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?I will write a poem for you pretty soon.Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?I DARE YOU TO ANSWER DEAR ILINDENOVA SO FAR
ONLY YOUR PIMP DOES,YOU JUST SHIT AND RUN,SHIT AND RUN.I *DARE* YOU
PROUD 'MACEDONIAN',IT DOESN'T MATTER IF PIGPIG YOUR PIMP TAKES PART AS
WELL,BUT I ***DARE*** *******YOU******** TO ANSWER JUST ONE TIME!!!

YOU CHICKENOID COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!
WolfWolf
2003-08-25 12:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?
Can you possible doubt it???
Post by sgeorgio2003
Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?
You mean the US President's excrements???
Post by sgeorgio2003
I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
WOW!!!
Georgosti writing gluposti ..
For everybosti
A big funnosti!!!
Post by sgeorgio2003
Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?
"Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian proverb)
Now, can you top it???

With amusement

WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
2003-08-26 20:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?
Can you possible doubt it???
Yes,just read my answers.
I've read all your answers, here and everywhere, and I've seen that you don't care
about evidence.
Oh, and most probably you believe that the moon is a big chunk of green cheese ...
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?
You mean the US President's excrements???
Yes,it has to do with Bush the Ape.
From your local zoo???
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
WOW!!!
Georgosti writing gluposti ..
For everybosti
A big funnosti!!!
I'm not pretty familiar with those -osti things,talk to Ilinden
instead.
Then you're not very familiar with Macedonian issues.
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?
"Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian proverb)
Now, can you top it???
Top what?A proverb?Which compares three languages?
You started comparing languages, didn't you???
Post by WolfWolf
With amusement
About your amusement read a previous message of mine.
All of them were quite amusing ...

WolfWolf
The European
Anri Erinin
2003-08-27 05:25:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Сряда, 27.08.03

06:00 Хана и Грейс
06:30 Тъмници и дракони
07:00 Бъдете здрави!
07:30 Кратки новини
07:32 Времето
07:33 Тази сутрин
08:00 bTV Новините
08:10 Блиц
08:30 Кратки новини
08:32 Времето
08:33 Тази сутрин
09:00 bTV Новините
09:04 Хороскопът на Светлана Тилкова
09:05 Тази сутрин
09:28 Времето
09:30 Бон Апети
10:00 Искрено и Лично
11:00 Пътища на любовта
12:00 bTV Новините
12:30 Шоуто на Слави
13:30 "Спящият тигър"
15:30 Виртуални рейнджъри
16:00 Заблудените ангели
16:30 Само за снимка
17:00 Отмъщението
18:00 Женени с деца
18:30 Без думи
19:15 Треска за злато
19:30 bTV Новините
20:15 "Нощите на беглеца"
22:00 bTV Новините
22:30 24
23:30 Само за снимка
00:00 Полтъргайст
01:00 "Спящият тигър"
02:30 Бон Апети
03:00 bTV Новините /п./
03:30 Без думи
03:50 Треска за злато
04:10 Пътища на любовта
05:00 Искрено и лично
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?
Can you possible doubt it???
Yes,just read my answers.
I've read all your answers, here and everywhere, and I've seen that you don't care
about evidence.
Oh, and most probably you believe that the moon is a big chunk of green cheese ...
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?
You mean the US President's excrements???
Yes,it has to do with Bush the Ape.
From your local zoo???
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
WOW!!!
Georgosti writing gluposti ..
For everybosti
A big funnosti!!!
I'm not pretty familiar with those -osti things,talk to Ilinden
instead.
Then you're not very familiar with Macedonian issues.
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?
"Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian
proverb)
Post by WolfWolf
Now, can you top it???
Top what?A proverb?Which compares three languages?
You started comparing languages, didn't you???
Post by WolfWolf
With amusement
About your amusement read a previous message of mine.
All of them were quite amusing ...
WolfWolf
The European
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-27 07:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?
Can you possible doubt it???
Yes,just read my answers.
I've read all your answers, here and everywhere, and I've seen that you don't care
about evidence.
Oh,darling,take a look at this:

**********************************************************************

Just read what happened in a previous thread.No wonder why I was the
last one to add sth:Ilinden ran away.This time please read.
Post by WolfWolf
I can continue with examples, but it is not necessary, because the above
is irrefutable evidence
For you of course,being objective is a hard hobby ...
Post by WolfWolf
that Hellenic and Greek are not the same
language.
a)You compared some words which are different and you concluded that
the two languages are different.So,according to you,since some English
and Greek words are the same then the two languages are the same.Are
they?
b)Give to anyone who speaks English an extract from Shakespear's
writings and ask him what he understands.Even though they were written
a few centuries ago and above all the UK didn't experience any
occupation during that time,he will have some difficulties.Does this
mean that Shakespear wrote in Suahili?

Now take into account:

i)between then (ancient Greece) and now more than 2000 years have
passed
ii)Hellas experienced various occupations which were very fierce,in
other words
not my definition of cultural exchange.
iii)A great deal of words in modern Greek are identical with the
ancient ones
iv)Of them who are not,the difference lies in the endings and has the
form of grammatical RULES,therefore it's not a coincidence
e.g. patir=>pateras , mitir=>mitera
v)We still fully use all the ancient prefixes (pro-,anti-,kata- etc)
vi)We use proverbs and sayings in ancient Greek
vii)Even without any knowledge of ancient Greek at all,it's still
possible for a Greek to understand the meaning of ancient
manuscripts,_AT LEAST_ to recognise the name 'Alexandros' (by the
way,which was his 'Macedonian' name? I think it was 'The Big
Lebowski',at least that -wski sounds good! :) Oh,don't tell me you
don't know his name :( Come on,he was such a great guy,the father of
your nation,and you don't even know his name???)

I'm waiting for your answers,although that despite my being polite
with you you still snob me.
Post by WolfWolf
Just like Macedonian and Greek are not the same.
Of course 'Macedonian' and Greek are not the same.
Post by WolfWolf
English
House
Water
Good morning
Good day
Greek
Spiti
Nero
?
Kalimera
Macedonian
Kukja
Voda
Dobro utro
Dobar den
Hellenic
Ikos
Idor
?
?
Ilinden,I personally paid much money to learn decent English ...
thanks for your try but these are just too preliminary for me,sorry
...

i)By the way,we still use Ikos extensively.For example we call the
White House (Lefko Iko).A church is also called 'God's Ikos'.A bordel
is also called 'Ikos anohis'.We also use it in expressions e.g.
'kat'ikon',which means delivery.We call the pets 'katikidia'.Dyu see
that 'iki'?It's a grammatical form of 'Ikos'.We call a servant
'ikiakos voithos'.Here's that 'iki' thing again!.I could go on for
pages.
ii)If you want water it's normal to say 'Give me some "nero"'.If you
say 'Give me some "Idor"' everyone (Greek) will understand what you
want,but it's just not common.However,many words have 'Idor' inside
them:
idrefsi,idragogio,idravlikos,idrometro ... Let's don't flood the page
;)
Do you know a strong acid which is the mixture of H2SO4 and HNO3 (in
certain proportions of course,not arbitrarily)?We call it 'basiliko
idor'.If you have anything gold keep it away from it.
Post by WolfWolf
What else do you Turkogreki or Ftcogians or kozi or Athenians need?
Ilinden the Macedonian
What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?
Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!

Cheers

*******************************************************************
Post by WolfWolf
Oh, and most probably you believe that the moon is a big chunk of green cheese ...
No evidence,no comments.
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?
You mean the US President's excrements???
Yes,it has to do with Bush the Ape.
From your local zoo???
I dunno.
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
WOW!!!
Georgosti writing gluposti ..
For everybosti
A big funnosti!!!
I'm not pretty familiar with those -osti things,talk to Ilinden
instead.
Then you're not very familiar with Macedonian issues.
Really?Then tell me an ancient Macedonian city ending in -ski.
I know Pella,Thessaloniki etc.They don't end in -ski.Were their names
changed
by the ancient Greeks,i.e. they used to be
Pellofski,Thessalonikofski?Were there
any -ofski cities at that time?The only -ski I'm familiar with is the
"Big Lempowski".
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?
"Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian
proverb)
Post by WolfWolf
Now, can you top it???
Top what?A proverb?Which compares three languages?
You started comparing languages, didn't you???
Really?When?Where?Wasn't Ilinden's message?And what I'm trying to do
is to prove
that you CANNOT compare languages and whoever does this has very
narrow knowledge and broad stupidity.Have a look at the mirror...
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
With amusement
About your amusement read a previous message of mine.
All of them were quite amusing ...
You still haven't read it,have you?
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
2003-08-27 16:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?
Can you possible doubt it???
Yes,just read my answers.
I've read all your answers, here and everywhere, and I've seen that you don't care
about evidence.
I can continue with examples, but it is not necessary, because the above
is irrefutable evidence
Different author, different thread, different context.
Whatever you have to discuss with Ilinden, I think you can deal it directly with him,
don't you agree??
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Oh, and most probably you believe that the moon is a big chunk of green cheese ...
No evidence,no comments.
By your logic, it would be the most direct conclusion.
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?
You mean the US President's excrements???
Yes,it has to do with Bush the Ape.
From your local zoo???
I dunno.
So from where else???
From Kalimantang/Borneo????
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
I will write a poem for you pretty soon.
WOW!!!
Georgosti writing gluposti ..
For everybosti
A big funnosti!!!
I'm not pretty familiar with those -osti things,talk to Ilinden
instead.
Then you're not very familiar with Macedonian issues.
Really?Then tell me an ancient Macedonian city ending in -ski.
I know Pella,Thessaloniki etc.They don't end in -ski.Were their names
changed
by the ancient Greeks,i.e. they used to be
Pellofski,Thessalonikofski?Were there
any -ofski cities at that time?The only -ski I'm familiar with is the
"Big Lempowski".
Below you find a fragment from an inscription on a slab of stone found in
Dura-Europos, a town founded by
Alexander the Great:

NOS TOJ JE TOJ, SMRDOT
FILOPATRASTES, DIO DO TOJ. TOJ DA NI
MOJ MI DIO NOS D'JE TOJ AL JE SAN
D'ROJ GYNAIKOS.

Translation:
"Your nose, yours, having smelled the pederast, spoke to you. Your nose itself, and
not mine, said to me that it is yours that prefers women."

Explanation:
NOS - "nose"
TOJ - "yours, your" - TOJ, for the literal TVOJ, is dialectally still very much in
use.
JE - auxiliary to DIO (DJAV) to form the past tense
SMRDOT - "having smelled" in modern Macedonian
FILOPATRASTES - "pederast, professional sodomite" - in Greek
DIO - "said, spoke"
DO - "to, at, towards"
TOJ - "you"
TOJ - "your, yours"
DA - "that, but"
NI - "no, not"
MOJ - "mine"
MI - "me, to me"
DIO - "said, spoke".
TOJ - "your, yours"
AL - "but, and, or"
JE - auxiliary to DIO
SAN - "itself, the one, the very one"
D' - "that"
ROJ - "would rather, likes, prefers"
GYNAIKOS -"woman" in Greek

Now, answer two questions:
Why did the writer use - with the exception of two words - a language which is totally
unrelated to ancient Greek?
How come that there are several words with an appaling similitude to modern
Macedonian?
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?
"Arabic is a language, Persian is a sweetmeat; Turkish is an art" (Persian
proverb)
Post by WolfWolf
Now, can you top it???
Top what?A proverb?Which compares three languages?
You started comparing languages, didn't you???
Really?When?Where?
You wrote above:
"Do you believe that Greek language is inferior ...?"
A clear comparison - made by you.
Post by sgeorgio2003
Wasn't Ilinden's message?And what I'm trying to do
is to prove
that you CANNOT compare languages and whoever does this has very
narrow knowledge and broad stupidity.Have a look at the mirror...
Have a look at literature.
I would suggest you the book below - a standard work for comparative linguistics.
Historical and Comparative Linguistics
Raimo Anttila
ISBN 90 272 3557 0
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by WolfWolf
With amusement
About your amusement read a previous message of mine.
All of them were quite amusing ...
You still haven't read it,have you?
I have. Did you???

With increasing amusement

WolfWolf
The European
Ilinden
2003-08-25 18:52:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?I will write a poem for you pretty soon.Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?I DARE YOU TO ANSWER DEAR ILINDENOVA SO FAR
ONLY YOUR PIMP DOES,YOU JUST SHIT AND RUN,SHIT AND RUN.I *DARE* YOU
PROUD 'MACEDONIAN',IT DOESN'T MATTER IF PIGPIG YOUR PIMP TAKES PART AS
WELL,BUT I ***DARE*** *******YOU******** TO ANSWER JUST ONE TIME!!!
YOU CHICKENOID COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!
WolfWolf
2003-08-25 21:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Ilinden, do you think that the Giorgio Armani can read it, let alone understand it???

WolfWolf
The European

"Ilinden" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:***@sympatico.ca...
THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?I will write a poem for you pretty soon.Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?I DARE YOU TO ANSWER DEAR ILINDENOVA SO FAR
ONLY YOUR PIMP DOES,YOU JUST SHIT AND RUN,SHIT AND RUN.I *DARE* YOU
PROUD 'MACEDONIAN',IT DOESN'T MATTER IF PIGPIG YOUR PIMP TAKES PART AS
WELL,BUT I ***DARE*** *******YOU******** TO ANSWER JUST ONE TIME!!!
YOU CHICKENOID COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!
kalin
2003-08-26 16:16:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Isn't there some sort of Macedonian/Greek/Turkish ot whatever group you can
air your grievances, rather than incessantly clog up this group with
irrelevant (in this context anyway) flame war?
Please, just go away.

+Peace to all+
Post by WolfWolf
Ilinden, do you think that the Giorgio Armani can read it, let alone understand it???
WolfWolf
The European
THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Georgio Armani stop your gluposti.
Ilinden
MY ?&$"§)/&* ????Well,Ilinden tell us,do you still think that ancient
and modern
Greek are different languages?Did you read my answer?Why do you keep
writing bush-shit?I will write a poem for you pretty soon.Do you
believe that the Greek language is inferior just because some people
don't pronounce the 'sh'?I DARE YOU TO ANSWER DEAR ILINDENOVA SO FAR
ONLY YOUR PIMP DOES,YOU JUST SHIT AND RUN,SHIT AND RUN.I *DARE* YOU
PROUD 'MACEDONIAN',IT DOESN'T MATTER IF PIGPIG YOUR PIMP TAKES PART AS
WELL,BUT I ***DARE*** *******YOU******** TO ANSWER JUST ONE TIME!!!
YOU CHICKENOID COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!
y***@albanian.com
2003-08-26 16:36:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Nga Veton Surroi

1.
“El martes ni te cases, ni te embarques”, thotë një fjalë e urtë spanjolle,
që e shpreh bestytninë se të “martën nuk duhet të martohesh e as të nisesh
për në rrugë”. Por, ja që faktikisht këtë të martë, fillon puna e
kryeadministratorit të ri të Kosovës, Harri Holkeri, me kosovarët, në një
listë të gjatë takimesh.
Ky kuriozitet i ditës së tregut në Prishtinë nuk do thotë gjë, më shumë flet
pritja e krijuar në opinionin publik se çka do të sjellë njeriu i cili
administron faktikisht Kosovën. Në reagimet e para të qytetarëve të
regjistruara në TV dëgjohen, të kondensuara, tri lloje mendimesh/ndjenjash .
Shpresa: Le të jetë ky kryeadministratori i fundit në Kosovë. Vërejtja: Të
mos merret me çështje simbolike si këta të tjerët, por të ndërmarrë hapa
faktikë. Rezignimi: As ky nuk do të bëjë gjë sikundër nuk bënë të tjerët.
Ç’është e vërteta, këto fjalë nuk janë vetëm të qytetarëve të përditshmërisë
sonë. Janë të formuluara, në një formë a tjetrën edhe nga disa prej liderëve
politikë, së fundit, së paku nga aspekti i shpresës e vërejtjes edhe nga
kryeparlamentari Daci.
2.
Të tri mendimet ndjenjë, apo ndjenjat mendim, megjithatë kanë të bëjnë më
shumë me reflektim të gjendjes shpirtërore në të cilën gjendet Kosova se sa
ndërlidhje me procesin politik e drejtimin nëpër të cilin po shkon.
Për shembull, shpresa se ky do të jetë kryeadministratori i fundit të
Kosovës reflekton dëshirën që Kosova ta fitojë pavarësinë brenda mandatit të
Holkerit. Apo vërejtja që të mos merret me çështje simbolike është pak a
shumë e adresuar te paraardhësi i Holkerit, Steiner, i cili prekte
sipërfaqësisht ndonjë sferë problematike me pesë, gjashtë apo shtatë pika të
projektit, vetëm për të kaluar , javën tjetër, në një sferë tjetër
problematike që meritonte pesë, gjashtë apo shtatë pika projekti. Dhe
rezignimi, se ky nuk do të bëjë gjë sikurse edhe të tjerët lidhet
drejtpërsëdrejti me faktin se të gjithë ne kemi pritur që brenda këtij afati
prej katër vjetësh të zgjidheshin pak a shumë të gjitha çështjet
fondamentale të shoqërisë sonë, dhe ky vend të funksiononte si një shtet
normal.
3.
Kosova, po të udhëhiqet nga këto tri orientime drejt Holkerit, ka gjasa të
mëdha që kryeadministratorin e ardhshëm ta presë në gjendje edhe më të madhe
zhgënjimi.
Harri Holkeri e fillon misionin e tij de facto sot dhe do të ishte e
natyrshme që fundin e misionit ta lidhë me zgjedhjet parlamentare të vitit
të ardhshëm. Prej sot e deri në zgjedhje parlamentare gjasat që të zgjidhet
çështja e statusit të Kosovës janë fare të vogla.
Brenda kësaj kornize kohore e përmbajtësore, pra të tranzicionit kah
zgjedhjet e vitit 2004, pak a shumë dy gjëra themelore mund të tërheqin
vëmendjen prioritare të kryeadministratorit: bartja e kompetencave te
institucionet kosovare (në ç’masë dhe çfarë shpejtësie) dhe marrëdhëniet
ndëretnike (siguria, kthimi, pjesëmarrja e serbëve në zgjedhje, dialogu me
Beogradin).
Në fund, arrijnë zgjedhjet, Parlamenti e Qeveria të dala nga vota e re, dhe
kryeadministratori i ri.
4.
Procesi politik në Kosovë dhe rreth Kosovës nuk është i pjekur që Holkeri të
jetë kryeadministratori i fundit. Nëse dikujt i shërben si ngushëllim a
dëshpërim shtesë, Kosova ka gjasa të mëdha që edhe pas zgjidhjes së çështjes
së statusit të ketë një formë të rëndësishme të pranisë ndërkombëtare, sipas
të gjitha gjasave të BE-së.
Për ata që duan të shohin se çfarë do të jetë viti i administrimit të
Holkerit, përcillni sinjalet e javës së parë. Brenda saj kryeadministratori
i ri i Kosovës do të shpjegojë se çka duan të bëjë këtu. Në njëfarë mënyre
edhe pushtetmbajtësit kosovarë do të duhej të shprehnin se çka duan nga ai.
Ajo çka nuk kemi dëgjuar tani, në asnjë rast të ardhjes së
kryeadministratorëve të rinj është se çka ka të përbashkët në atë që duan
kryeadministratori dhe përfaqësuesit kosovarë.
Këta binarë kanë ecur paralelisht, pa u puqur. Dhe, ky ka qenë sinjali i
fortë pse Kosova pret kryeadministrator pas kryeadministratori.
Anri Erinin
2003-08-27 05:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Българска
Национална
Телевизия

ТВ България

Програма за седмицата
от 25 август до 31 август 2003 година

ПОНЕДЕЛНИК, 25 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Пеят Донка и Тодор Кожухарови – фолклор
15:20 Дунав мост – тв филм /седми, последен епизод /п/
16:15 Формула К – картинг за деца
17:00 Новини
17:10 Оръжията, без които можем – документален филм
17:30 Енциклопедия на билките: Цикория /п/
17:40 Пътят – филм за народната певица Янка Рупкина
18:40 Трето полувреме
19:30 ШАШ – тв шоу на Владо Въргала
20:00 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:20 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:35 Как ще ги стигнем … - тв шоу /гост Тодор Колев/
01:00 Новини
01:10 Мело тв мания

ВТОРНИК, 26 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Татък в равна Добруджа – фолклор
15:20 Човешка комедия: Един мъж и една жена
15:45 Лято в бяло – детски игрален филм
17:00 Новини
17:10 Човек с качества – филм за проф.Владко Мурдаров
17:30 Бриз 2003 – документален филм
18:00 Мело тв мания /п/
18:40 Непознатата България: От Габрово до Титаник
19:10 Фолклор от Сатовча
19:40 Светъл пример – Анто – игрален филм, режисьор Иван Андонов, в
ролите: Велко Кънев, Евстати Стратев, Пепа Николова, Георги Русев, Илка
Зафирова и др.
20:30 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:00 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:15 Петимата от Моби Дик – игрален филм, режисьори: Гриша Островски и
Тодор Стоянов, в ролите: Мая Драгоманска, Мариус Донкин, Сашка
Братанова, Ириней Константинов, Георги Парцалев и др.
00:50 Спорт и лято – екстремни спортове
01:15 Новини


СРЯДА, 27 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:55 Петимата от Моби Дик – игрален филм /п/
16:30 Под небето на България
17:00 Новини
17:10 Ала – бала – тв състезание
17:40 Македоно-Одринска революционна галерия: Генерал Иван Цончев –
генерал на две армии
18:10 Нощем с белите коне – тв филм /четвърта серия/
19:15 Клуб “НЛО” – тв шоу /п/
20:00 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:10 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:25 Тишина – игрален филм, режисьор Димитър Петков, в ролите: Христо
Гърбов, Жорета Николова, Петър Попйорданов, Наум Шопов и др.
00:45 Новини
01:00 Футбол в 35 – обзор на ІІІ кръг от първенството на “А” ПФГ

ЧЕТВЪРТЪК, 28 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Национален календар: 60 години от смъртта на Цар Борис ІІІ
14:55 Фолклорни виртуози
15:25 Тишина – игрален филм /п/
16:45 Векът на България: 1966 година
17:00 Новини
17:10 Някога, някъде… – тв филм
18:10 Очи в очи с животните: Скорпионите
18:20 Енциклопедия на билките: Кедър /ІІ част/ /п/
18:30 Път към Голгота: Отец Рафаил Раев /втора част/
19:00 От дума на дума – фолклор
19:30 Нощем с белите коне – тв филм /пета серия/
20:30 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:15 Новини
21:25 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:10 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:25 За къде пътувате – игрален филм, режисьор Рангел Вълчанов, в
ролите: Стоян Алексиев, Георги Калоянчев, Йосиф Сърчаджиев, Катерина
Евро и др.
01:00 Новини


ПЕТЪК, 29 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:50 Национален календар: 105 години от рождението на художника
Александър Добринов
14:55 Фолклорни бисери
15:10 Очевидните чудеса – документален филм
15:40 Защо: Успехът
16:10 Минута е много – тв състезание
17:00 Новини
17:10 За къде пътувате – игрален филм /п/
18:35 Пей ми песен – фолклор
19:00 Нощем с белите коне – тв филм /шеста, последна серия/
20:00 Новини
20:30 Актуално
20:45 Далекоглед
21:00 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
23:10 Световно първенство по тенис за журналисти – репортаж от Албена
23:40 ШАШ – тв шоу на Влади Въргала /п/
00:10 Полет над нощта – нощен блок

СЪБОТА, 30 август 2003 г.

12:00 Новини
12:20 Златоградски ескизи - фолклор
12:50 Вкусно
13:20 Енциклопедия на билките
13:30 Бон – Бон
14:00 Международен турнир по триатлон – кръг от Европейската купа,
Световна и Европейска квалификация /пряко предаване от езерето “Панчарево”/
16:15 Палавници – тв състезание
17:30 Непозната земя: Круни – Дионисополис – Балчик
18:00 Памет българска: Ранната история на Българската държава
18:50 Световно първенство по лека атлетика – пряко предаване от Париж
21:00 Новини
21:30 Вик за помощ – игрален филм, режисьор Никола Рударов, в ролите:
Ивайло Герасков, Елжана Попова, Павел Поппандов, Валерия Тодорова и др.
23:10 Далекоглед
23:15 Джубокс: Любовни квартири
23:40 Каналето – тв шоу
00:30 Клиника на третия: Ехограф
01:00 Новини
01:10 Синьо в синьо – джаз-спектакъл с участието на Мая Новоселска,
Самуел Финци, Антони Дончев и джаз квартет

НЕДЕЛЯ, 31 август 2003 г.

14:30 Новини
14:45 Маневри на петия етаж – комедия, режисьор Петър Василев-Милевин, в
ролите: Стефан Данаилов, Велко Кънев, Антон Радичев, Венцислав Кисьов,
Мария Стефанова и др.
16:15 За животните с любов
16:45 Клуб “НЛО” – тв шоу
17:30 Всяка неделя
20:00 Далекоглед
20:05 Футбол: “Литекс” – “Левски”, среща от първенството на “А” ПФГ –
пряко предаване от Ловеч
в паузата: Новини
22:20 Световно първенство по лека атлетика /финали/ - репортаж
00:20 Новини
00:30 Празници на изкуствата “Аполония 2003”: Откриване на фестивала и
концерт-спектакъл на ансамбъл “Пирин”
Post by y***@albanian.com
Nga Veton Surroi
1.
“El martes ni te cases, ni te embarques”, thotë një fjalë e urtë spanjolle,
që e shpreh bestytninë se të “martën nuk duhet të martohesh e as të nisesh
për në rrugë”. Por, ja që faktikisht këtë të martë, fillon puna e
kryeadministratorit të ri të Kosovës, Harri Holkeri, me kosovarët, në një
listë të gjatë takimesh.
Ky kuriozitet i ditës së tregut në Prishtinë nuk do thotë gjë, më shumë flet
pritja e krijuar në opinionin publik se çka do të sjellë njeriu i cili
administron faktikisht Kosovën. Në reagimet e para të qytetarëve të
regjistruara në TV dëgjohen, të kondensuara, tri lloje mendimesh/ndjenjash .
Shpresa: Le të jetë ky kryeadministratori i fundit në Kosovë. Vërejtja: Të
mos merret me çështje simbolike si këta të tjerët, por të ndërmarrë hapa
faktikë. Rezignimi: As ky nuk do të bëjë gjë sikundër nuk bënë të tjerët.
Ç’është e vërteta, këto fjalë nuk janë vetëm të qytetarëve të përditshmërisë
sonë. Janë të formuluara, në një formë a tjetrën edhe nga disa prej liderëve
politikë, së fundit, së paku nga aspekti i shpresës e vërejtjes edhe nga
kryeparlamentari Daci.
2.
Të tri mendimet ndjenjë, apo ndjenjat mendim, megjithatë kanë të bëjnë më
shumë me reflektim të gjendjes shpirtërore në të cilën gjendet Kosova se sa
ndërlidhje me procesin politik e drejtimin nëpër të cilin po shkon.
Për shembull, shpresa se ky do të jetë kryeadministratori i fundit të
Kosovës reflekton dëshirën që Kosova ta fitojë pavarësinë brenda mandatit të
Holkerit. Apo vërejtja që të mos merret me çështje simbolike është pak a
shumë e adresuar te paraardhësi i Holkerit, Steiner, i cili prekte
sipërfaqësisht ndonjë sferë problematike me pesë, gjashtë apo shtatë pika të
projektit, vetëm për të kaluar , javën tjetër, në një sferë tjetër
problematike që meritonte pesë, gjashtë apo shtatë pika projekti. Dhe
rezignimi, se ky nuk do të bëjë gjë sikurse edhe të tjerët lidhet
drejtpërsëdrejti me faktin se të gjithë ne kemi pritur që brenda këtij afati
prej katër vjetësh të zgjidheshin pak a shumë të gjitha çështjet
fondamentale të shoqërisë sonë, dhe ky vend të funksiononte si një shtet
normal.
3.
Kosova, po të udhëhiqet nga këto tri orientime drejt Holkerit, ka gjasa të
mëdha që kryeadministratorin e ardhshëm ta presë në gjendje edhe më të madhe
zhgënjimi.
Harri Holkeri e fillon misionin e tij de facto sot dhe do të ishte e
natyrshme që fundin e misionit ta lidhë me zgjedhjet parlamentare të vitit
të ardhshëm. Prej sot e deri në zgjedhje parlamentare gjasat që të zgjidhet
çështja e statusit të Kosovës janë fare të vogla.
Brenda kësaj kornize kohore e përmbajtësore, pra të tranzicionit kah
zgjedhjet e vitit 2004, pak a shumë dy gjëra themelore mund të tërheqin
vëmendjen prioritare të kryeadministratorit: bartja e kompetencave te
institucionet kosovare (në ç’masë dhe çfarë shpejtësie) dhe marrëdhëniet
ndëretnike (siguria, kthimi, pjesëmarrja e serbëve në zgjedhje, dialogu me
Beogradin).
Në fund, arrijnë zgjedhjet, Parlamenti e Qeveria të dala nga vota e re, dhe
kryeadministratori i ri.
4.
Procesi politik në Kosovë dhe rreth Kosovës nuk është i pjekur që Holkeri të
jetë kryeadministratori i fundit. Nëse dikujt i shërben si ngushëllim a
dëshpërim shtesë, Kosova ka gjasa të mëdha që edhe pas zgjidhjes së çështjes
së statusit të ketë një formë të rëndësishme të pranisë ndërkombëtare, sipas
të gjitha gjasave të BE-së.
Për ata që duan të shohin se çfarë do të jetë viti i administrimit të
Holkerit, përcillni sinjalet e javës së parë. Brenda saj kryeadministratori
i ri i Kosovës do të shpjegojë se çka duan të bëjë këtu. Në njëfarë mënyre
edhe pushtetmbajtësit kosovarë do të duhej të shprehnin se çka duan nga ai.
Ajo çka nuk kemi dëgjuar tani, në asnjë rast të ardhjes së
kryeadministratorëve të rinj është se çka ka të përbashkët në atë që duan
kryeadministratori dhe përfaqësuesit kosovarë.
Këta binarë kanë ecur paralelisht, pa u puqur. Dhe, ky ka qenë sinjali i
fortë pse Kosova pret kryeadministrator pas kryeadministratori.
ERIC
2003-08-26 16:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Woof has to clog up these newsgroups as a condition of his employment from
his masters in Ankara. He is a paid propagandist and liar.
Ilinden is simply dimwitted and in possession of a PC and internet access.
Regards
Eric
--
Post by kalin
Isn't there some sort of Macedonian/Greek/Turkish ot whatever group you can
air your grievances, rather than incessantly clog up this group with
irrelevant (in this context anyway) flame war?
Please, just go away.
+Peace to all+
Post by WolfWolf
Ilinden, do you think that the Giorgio Armani can read it, let alone
understand it???
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian
Ilinden
2003-08-26 17:23:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Eric the Red ,can I get a job at your restaurant?
Post by ERIC
Woof has to clog up these newsgroups as a condition of his employment from
his masters in Ankara. He is a paid propagandist and liar.
Ilinden is simply dimwitted and in possession of a PC and internet access.
Regards
Eric
--
Post by kalin
Isn't there some sort of Macedonian/Greek/Turkish ot whatever group you
can
Post by kalin
air your grievances, rather than incessantly clog up this group with
irrelevant (in this context anyway) flame war?
Please, just go away.
+Peace to all+
Post by WolfWolf
Ilinden, do you think that the Giorgio Armani can read it, let alone
understand it???
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian
Anri Erinin
2003-08-27 05:20:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by kalin
Isn't there some sort of Macedonian/Greek/Turkish ot whatever group you can
air your grievances, rather than incessantly clog up this group with
irrelevant (in this context anyway) flame war?
Please, just go away.
Когато им пращам такива послания, аз махам с.ц.б. от списъка на групите
(не и в случая, защото пиша до теб).

А сега нека се питат какво пише тук, а любопитстващите българи от
югозападната провинция да си направят труда да четат българска кирилица.

Честно казано, не ми пука как се наричат и на какъв език говорят. Но
напоследък в българската преса и ефирните медии се появиха доста
доказателства и свидетелства на препатили за отношението към български
граждани в същата тази югозападна провинция.

Преди около месец, в шоуто на Слави гостува една петричанка, арестувана
и съдена по бързата процедура, защото имала неблагоразумието пътувайки в
рейса към Охрид да говори на български.

Нехорошо!
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-26 07:33:34 UTC
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Post by Ilinden
THIS LETTER IS FOR GEORGIO ARMANI FROM THE FTCOG.
Subject: Hellenic words not Greek
The words written below are in Hellenic. Please give me the Greek
translation,since you think these two languages are the same. Ilamestha
dia kipiru ke fleo herontes odis polikolimvisi melesin i dios fevgontes
omvron enidron en vitho horian eolan efthegxamestha
pomfoligopaflasmasin.Ude min imas si pantos. Os utos o topos estin u ta
thiria ta din efask ekinos.Kalist epidan emvalis apax.Tot em agin.
Vapeos pani. Tot em agin. This is Hellenic not Greek (Grekika)
Ilinden the Macedonian
Just read what happened in a previous thread.No wonder why I was the
last one to add sth:Ilinden ran away.This time please read.
Post by Ilinden
I can continue with examples, but it is not necessary, because the above
is irrefutable evidence
For you of course,being objective is a hard hobby ...
Post by Ilinden
that Hellenic and Greek are not the same
language.
a)You compared some words which are different and you concluded that
the two languages are different.So,according to you,since some English
and Greek words are the same then the two languages are the same.Are
they?
b)Give to anyone who speaks English an extract from Shakespear's
writings and ask him what he understands.Even though they were written
a few centuries ago and above all the UK didn't experience any
occupation during that time,he will have some difficulties.Does this
mean that Shakespear wrote in Suahili?

Now take into account:

i)between then (ancient Greece) and now more than 2000 years have
passed
ii)Hellas experienced various occupations which were very fierce,in
other words
not my definition of cultural exchange.
iii)A great deal of words in modern Greek are identical with the
ancient ones
iv)Of them who are not,the difference lies in the endings and has the
form of grammatical RULES,therefore it's not a coincidence
e.g. patir=>pateras , mitir=>mitera
v)We still fully use all the ancient prefixes (pro-,anti-,kata- etc)
vi)We use proverbs and sayings in ancient Greek
vii)Even without any knowledge of ancient Greek at all,it's still
possible for a Greek to understand the meaning of ancient
manuscripts,_AT LEAST_ to recognise the name 'Alexandros' (by the
way,which was his 'Macedonian' name? I think it was 'The Big
Lebowski',at least that -wski sounds good! :) Oh,don't tell me you
don't know his name :( Come on,he was such a great guy,the father of
your nation,and you don't even know his name???)

I'm waiting for your answers,although that despite my being polite
with you you still snob me.
Post by Ilinden
Just like Macedonian and Greek are not the same.
Of course 'Macedonian' and Greek are not the same.
Post by Ilinden
English
House
Water
Good morning
Good day
Greek
Spiti
Nero
?
Kalimera
Macedonian
Kukja
Voda
Dobro utro
Dobar den
Hellenic
Ikos
Idor
?
?
Ilinden,I personally paid much money to learn decent English ...
thanks for your try but these are just too preliminary for me,sorry
...

i)By the way,we still use Ikos extensively.For example we call the
White House (Lefko Iko).A church is also called 'God's Ikos'.A bordel
is also called 'Ikos anohis'.We also use it in expressions e.g.
'kat'ikon',which means delivery.We call the pets 'katikidia'.Dyu see
that 'iki'?It's a grammatical form of 'Ikos'.We call a servant
'ikiakos voithos'.Here's that 'iki' thing again!.I could go on for
pages.
ii)If you want water it's normal to say 'Give me some "nero"'.If you
say 'Give me some "Idor"' everyone (Greek) will understand what you
want,but it's just not common.However,many words have 'Idor' inside
them:
idrefsi,idragogio,idravlikos,idrometro ... Let's don't flood the page
;)
Do you know a strong acid which is the mixture of H2SO4 and HNO3 (in
certain proportions of course,not arbitrarily)?We call it 'basiliko
idor'.If you have anything gold keep it away from it.
Post by Ilinden
What else do you Turkogreki or Ftcogians or kozi or Athenians need?
Ilinden the Macedonian
What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?What?
Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!Answers!!!

Cheers
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-25 08:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ilinden
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
'Ilinden' has nothing to do with Macedonia!!!.
Ilinden is a name of a village in Macedonia.
Are you denying that, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
In the countryside all over Macedonia there are also some
dog-shits.What does this have to do with the history of Macedonia?
WolfWolf
2003-08-25 11:55:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by Ilinden
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
.......................................
Post by Ilinden
Excerpts from "Greek Anti-Macedonian Conflict" from Ilinden to
Zagorichani 1903-1905 by: Dimitris
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Lithoxoou
The Macedonian leader, Kote Hristov, used to be a member of the
Macedonian organization BMPO
..........................................................
Post by Ilinden
The atrocities were made on many other villages. Greek historians state
that Greece liberated
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
Macedonia. Macedonia was never liberated by Greece. Greece could not even
liberate herself. Greeks
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by Yannis the Makedonian
Post by Ilinden
perpetrated outrageous atrocities on the Macedonian people. Greek
historians write only lies.
Macedonians had always Greek names
So according to Jovanche, the very Macedonian name "Ilinden" is of Greek origin.
Care to give us a detailed etymological analysis, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
'Ilinden' has nothing to do with Macedonia!!!.
Ilinden is a name of a village in Macedonia.
Are you denying that, dimwit???
WolfWolf
The European
In the countryside all over Macedonia there are also some
dog-shits.
More than in Athens with all the stray dogs? Impossible!!!

WolfWolf
The European
l***@gmail.com
2017-05-06 04:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Funny how in their original document none of translation even have the same number of letters in each word or even the same order!! Why is the original unlegible?? Bring facts not fiction when you argue a lamen can even tell you this is not a legitimate translation!!
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-22 06:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
the only one
And who gives a rat's ass???
You!!!Since you replied!!!Please,just give me the URL of the E-book!!!
It's impossible that FartFart wrote all of the following diarheia!!!He
just did some ctrl-c and some ctrl-v!!!This fart of 120 decibels has
ready answers on his lice-infested PC!!!O,how pervert this
shit-scattering parasite is!!!

[relentless diarheia snipped]
y***@albanian.com
2003-08-22 16:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Nga Veton Surroi

1.
Duhet të jetë mbresë e fëmijërisë, por çdo herë që përmendet pirateria, e
imagjinoj figurën e Kapitenit Hook, ashtu siç e krijoi Walt Disney në filmin
për Peter Panin. Sytë e tij të mëdhenj e të gjakosur, mustaqet e gjata,
kapela prej komandanti, këmba e ngrënë nga krokodili, dhe natyrisht, simboli
i tij identifikues, çengeli në vend të dorës. Kështu më doli para sysh më i
njohuri prej kusarëve kur dëgjova se tashmë kishte kaluar të gjitha fazat
procedurale Ligji kundër piraterisë në Shqipëri: me fatin e tij të çuditshëm
prej kusari, kapiteni Hook së shpejti do të mund të emetohet në televizionet
e ndryshme të Shqipërisë, vetëm nëse për të i paguhen të drejtat e autorit
distributorëve të filmave të Walt Disneyt. Njëri prej vjedhësve më të
famshëm nuk do të mund të emetohet me vjedhje. Fatin e ngjashëm, po qe se
zbatohet ligji në fjalë, do ta kenë të gjitha karakteret filmike,
posaçërisht ato të prodhimit të ri. E të këtilla, krijime filmike nga më të
rejat, ç’është e vërteta shiheshin në televizione të ndryshme shqiptare,
ndonjëherë edhe paralel me shfaqjen e tyre kohore në kinematë e metropoleve
të ndryshme botërore. Para një muaji, me rastisi të takoj një të huaj në
Shqipëri që nuk kishte arritur ta shihte filmin “Frida” që sapo kishte
filluar të shfaqej në vendin e tij. Në vend të kinemasë, arriti që këtë film
ta shohë në njërin prej TV-ve, mandej të nesërmen në tjetrin, të pasnesërmen
në të tretin...
2.
Kapiteni Hook, në të dy cilësitë e tij, edhe prej hajni e edhe prej
personazhi filmik për të cilin paguhen të drejtat e autorit më duket se
shndërrohet në një metaforë për atë që ndodh në Shqipëri. Pirateria filmike
në Shqipëri kishte prodhuar dy efekte themelore shoqërore, apo kishte qenë
pjesë e dy efekteve themelore shoqërore, si të doni. I pari ishte efekti
modernizues shoqëror: Shqipëria e izoluar prej enverizmit e cila me një sy
shikonte nga televizionet italiane, përnjëherë u vërshua nga prodhimi
bashkëkohor televiziv e filmik. Një popull që ishte kontrolluar nga çfarëdo
që do të prodhonte Kino Studioja, përnjëherë u bombardua me Hollywood,
çfarëdo të mirë a të keqe të ketë pasur ky kryeqytet i filmit. I dyti ishte
natyralizimi i vjedhjes (huazimit të përkohshëm, do të thoshte ndonjë zbutës
fjalësh) i krijimit televiziv a filmik për të bërë televizion Made in
Albania. Ishte, dhe është fare e nënkuptuar deri më sot në Shqipëri, se në
televizion, duke përfshirë edhe atë shtetëror, mund të “huazohen” prodhimet
televizive a filmike për emetim, pa pyetur për leje emetimi, e lëre më
pagese për të. Kjo edhe nuk është aq me çudi ngase në mënyrë analoge, në
shoqërinë shqiptare u natyralizuan format e tjera të vjedhjes: një numër
bukur i madh veturash në Shqipëri janë të vjedhura (apo të shpallura të
vjedhura nga shitësit e tyre italianë e të tjerë, që morën paratë e
sigurimeve), dhe si të këtilla janë blerë nga pronarët e tyre të rinj. Që të
gjithë e kanë pranuar normalitetin e statusit të këtyre veturave si ish -të
vjedhura.
3.
S’do mend se natyralizimi i vjedhjes ka qenë urë për të lidhur diskrepancën
e modernitetit shqiptar: nevojën urgjente për bukë, film dhe Benz me
mungesën e pasurisë për t’i blerë këto. Nëse do gjykuar sipas Ligjit kundër
Piraterisë, kësaj ure që lidh diskrepancën i ka ardhur fundi. Ndoshta si
pjesë e obligimeve të anëtarësisë në Organizatën Botërore të Tregtisë, apo
nga motive të ndërtimit të shtetit të së drejtës, me çfarëdo që të jetë
shtytur, qeveria ka marrë një hap që mund të ketë efekte edhe më të thella
se sa ndalesa e përkohshme, dhe jo aq e popullarizuar, e transmetimit të
filmave të rinj e të mirë. Efekti imediat, gjithsesi, është vënie në rend të
skenës kaotike televizive në Shqipëri. Në lëvizjen e lavjerrësit mediatik
shqiptar, është kaluar prej ekzistimit të RTSH-së si televizion i dedikuar
Enver Hoxhës e familjes së tij deri te ekzistimi i televizioneve të
mëhallave të fshatrave. Ndërsa gjendja monotelevizive ishte diktatoriale,
kjo e shumëllojshmërisë së parregulluar është pengesë për të ndërtuar
cilësi. Shumëllojshmëria e televizioneve, jashtë afarizmit të një ekonomie
tregu, e me transmetim produktesh piraterie, thjesht pengon formimin e
përgjegjësisë ekonomike të TV-së, afarizmit, dhe në fund përgjegjësisë
profesionale. Shqipëria, kështu, ka kaluar dy fazat e ndërtimit të TV-së si
mjet presioni. Në të parin, ishte Partia e cila ushtronte dhunën mediatike
nëpërmjet TV-së. Në të dytin, grupet ekonomike do të ndërtonin TV për të
ushtruar presion mediatik që të favorizohen projektet e tyre të tjera
ekonomike (shumëherë të lidhura edhe me politikë). Tash hyhet në fazën e
tretë, kur TV-ja duhet të shikohet si ndërmarrje afariste, madje një
ndërmarrje afariste me shumë më tepër investime në të se ç’mund të
paramendohej deri tani. Nga tregu i egër i TV-së, duhet të dalin tri-katër
TV të forta me karakter kombëtar, që do të luftojnë barabarisht në treg të
rregulluar, dhe me përgjegjësi ndaj këtij tregu. E, kjo gjendje,
rrjedhimisht, do të kërkojë prej Televizioneve gara për auditor, pra edhe
politikë redaktuese që i dedikohet auditorit, jo interesave ekonomike të
pronarëve në biznese të tjera, si dhe jo rralë, atyre politike.
4.
Shqipëria ndoshta do të fitojë edhe ca më shumë me rrënimin e figurës dhe
veprës së Kapitenit Hook. Atëherë kur filloi vrulli i transmetimeve private,
Kapiteni Hook hyri si metaforë e të konsideruarit të hajnisë si gjendje e
rregullt shoqërore. Tash, kur sillet Ligji i ri, ndoshta Kapiteni ngazëllyes
do të simbolizojë të kundërtën, si në pirateri filmike, ashtu edhe
tjetërkund.
y***@albanian.com
2003-08-22 16:43:24 UTC
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Alma Mile
Ndoshta ajo nuk ishte aq e bukur sa Helena e Trojës, edhe pse mbante të
njëjtin emër, por një gjë është e qartë, ajo ndërtoi kishën më të bukur të
veriut. Në bregun e majtë të Bunës, atje ku kaltërsia e lumit rreh bregun,
duken gërmadhat e një kishe, që pushojnë nën hijet e pemëve të larta. Nuk
dihet në lumi ishte i dashuruar, a xheloz ndaj bukurisë së kishës, që
përpiqej të përpinte sa më shumë prej mureve të saj. Pasi kanë kaluar qindra
shekuj nga ndërtimi i saj, nga Helena, e bija e perandorit latin të
Bizantit, Balduini II, prej kishës së quajtur Shna Prena, apo siç njihet
ndryshe kisha e Shirgjit, ka mbijetuar vetëm një faqe muri, e cila ka mbetur
të dëshmojë, jo vetëm për ekzistencën e saj, gërshetimin mes kulturave të
popujve të ndryshëm, por edhe për legjendën dhe varret e mbretërve të parë
sllavë, që ruan në themele. Prej disa vitesh, Instituti i Monumenteve të
Kulturës, duke u nisur nga vlerat e kishës, e cila daton e shekullit të XIV,
dhe shkatërrimi i vazhdueshëm, ka kërkuar fonde për ndërtimin e një
argjinature mbrojtëse, gjë që u bë e mundur vetëm këtë vit. Pak ditë më
parë, ka përfunduar ndërtimi i një argjinature në pjesën perëndimore të
Kishës së Shirgjit. Sipas drejtorit të Institutit të Monumenteve, Gazmend
Mukës, kjo ndërhyrje e domosdoshme, bashkë me atë të bërë një vit më parë,
kanë shpëtuar përfundimisht nga shkatërrimi, këtë objekt të rrallë në
spektrin e monumenteve të kulturës shqiptare. Krahas shenjave të një
arkitekture të veçantë, apo të lashtësisë, vlerat e saj rriten më tepër,
ndërsa udhëtarë dhe studiues të huaj, që kanë kaluar pranë rrënojave, e kanë
cilësuar si kishën më të bukur të Shqipërisë së veriut. Sipas drejtorit
Muka, përpjekjet për të realizuar këtë ndërhyrje, kanë nisur që në kohën,
kur në krye të Institutit të Monumenteve, ishte Artan Shkreli. Megjithë
këmbënguljen e tij dhe vizitën e vet ministres së atëhershme të Kulturës,
Esmeralda Uruçit, buzë Bunës, për të parë gjëndjen e ndërtesës së rrënuar,
nuk u arrit asgjë. Ka qenë një mrekulli, që një vit më parë, gjatë
përmbytjeve të mëdha ë zonat veriore, mbetën të pacënuara reliket e fundit
të kishës së Shirgjit. Më pas, do të ishte ministrja pasardhëse, Arta Dade,
e cila do t’i kushtonte vëmendjen e duhur, këtij monumenti dhe të çelte një
fond të veçantë për shpëtimin e tij. “Eshtë e rëndësishme të përmend edhe
punën e bërë nga firma ndërtuese “Blinishta”, e cila mori përsipër një punë
shumë të vështirë, ndërtimin e një argjinature, në një thellësi prej 7-8
metrash, nën ujërat e ftohtë të Bunës”. Argjinatura, e cila rrethon nga dy
anë rrënojat e kishës, ka kushtuar rreth 7 milionë lekë të reja. “Mendohet
që kjo kishë të ketë një paraekzistencë arkitekturore, që daton në shekullin
e 6 të erës sonë, por ne ende nuk kemi argumente. Qëllimi ynë, është që
tashmë që punimet për të shmangur shkatërrimin e saj janë evituar, të
fillojmë një ekspeditë gërmimesh arkeologjike, të cilat mendojmë se do të na
zbulojnë fakte të reja për kishën”, - sqaron drejtori i Institutit të
Monumenteve të Kulturës, Gazmend Muka. Duke qenë se në themelet e kësaj
kishe ndodhen varret e katër mbretërve sllavë, është i mundshëm organizimi i
një ekspedite të përbashkët shqiptaro-malazeze, pasi sipas drejtorit Muka,
vazhdimisht nga pala malazeze, ka pasur interesime kundrejt kësaj kishe të
lashtë. Gjithsesi, e rëndësishme është që në spektrin e monumenteve të
kulturës shqiptare, qëndron e sigurt dhe Kisha e Shirgjit, buzë ujërave të
Bunës.

Historai e dokumentuar
Ndodhet në tokë shqiptare, por thuhet se në themelet e saj, ndodhen varret e
4 mbretërve, të cilët janë paraardhësit e malazezëve. Një gërshetim
kulturash dhe historish, zanafilla e së cilës ende nuk është shumë e qartë.
Prej dokumenteve dhe studiuesve, del se ndërtuesja e kësaj kishe është
Helena, mbretëresha e Serbisë, Dioklesë(Dukle, në afërsi të Podgoricës),
Shqipërisë, Dalmacisë dhe e bregdetit. Ajo ishte bija e perandorit latin të
Bizantit, Balduini II dhe ishte martuar me sunduesin e popullit serb, Stefan
Uroshin I (1275-1321). Pas vdekjes së Uroshit I, të dy djemtë e tij,
Dragutini dhe Milutini, ndanë midis tyre tokat që zotëronin në Serbi, ndërsa
krahinat perëndimore, ia lanë nën sundim mbretëreshës së ve, Helenës.
Mendohet se ajo, dhe më pas të bijtë, të cila kanë lënë mbi mure edhe shumë
mbishkrime latine, kanë qenë ndërtuesit e kishës së Shirgjit.

Paraekzistenca në kohërat e Justinianit
Ndonëse në bazë të dokumentacioneve, ndërtuesja e kishës së Shirgjit, njihet
Helena, e bija e perandorit, mendohet që kjo kishë të ketë ekzistuar shumë
shekuj më parë. Sipas drejtorit të Institutit të Monumenteve të Kulturës,
Gazmend Muka, mendohet që ajo t’i ketë fillesat e saj, që në shekullin e VI,
të erës sonë, që në kohën e Justinianit të Madh. Mendohet që ajo t’i
kushtohej dy martirëve ushtarakë, Serxhit dhe Bakut. Nga studimet e bëra,
vihet re një lidhje mes kishës dhe Kalasë së Rozafës. Por jo vetëm kaq. Ajo
ç’ka është më interesantja, qëndron në faktin, që edhe në Azinë e Vogël,
ndodhet një kishë e tillë, e cila është e lidhur me një kala, që quhet e
Rozafës, ku gjenden edhe relike të dy martirëve. Mendohet që pikërisht aty,
të jenë martirizuar Serxhi dhe Baku. Kjo ekzistencë paralele e monumenteve
të tilla, të së njëjtës periudhë, në dy vende të ndryshme, nuk është
rastësore. Ndoshta kjo lidhet me kultin e dy martirëve, i cili ka qenë shumë
i përhapur në kohën e Justinianit.
y***@albanian.com
2003-08-22 17:02:33 UTC
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Mësimi i parë

Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege

 

Chris Hughes

Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege. Qëllimi i doracakut të gegnishtes dhe jo të
gjuhës letrare egzistuese âsht i dyfishtë - i pari, thjesht për me mësuë
studentë të huej (dhe kryesisht anglishtfolës) gjuhën e pasun bisedimore të
kosovarëve, preshevarëve, shqiptaro-maqedonasve e tjera, me synim qi ata me
mujtë me i kuptuë gegnishtfolësit, dhe me e respektuë të folmen e tyne.  Dhe
i dyti qëllim âsht për me treguë kjartë qi âsht plotsisht e mundun me nxânë
gegnishten në mënyrë formale, dhe si gjuhë, dhe jo si forma dialektore,
katûndare qi s’ka kurrgjâ për me i ofruë studentit të huej ose akademikut
shqiptar.  Ishalla, k’ejt ata qi janë tue e biseduë të ardhmen e gjuhës
shqipe sot e kësaj dite kanë m’ia kushtuë vëmêndje kontributit mâ të madh qi
gegnishtja, si gjuha e përshkrueme në këtë kurs, mun me i ofruë gjuhës
letrare shqipe.

1. Bisedë (Conversation)

Hysniu: Tung Xhev!

Xhevdeti: Tung shoqi!  Qysh je vëlla?  A je mirë?

Hysniu: Krejt rahat, shnosh jam.  Falemnderit.  A je lodhë ti?

Xhevdeti: Nga pak, vëlla.  A ka najsen të re?

Hysniu: Jo.  Njiherë jo.  Hajt pra.  Shnet.  Mirupafshim!

Xhevdeti: Po, mirupafshim.  Shifemi prapë.

 

 

Fjalorth (Vocabulary)

All the vocabulary presented in these lessons is listed in an Albanian to
English glossary at the end of the book for ease of reference.

Hysni, Xhevdet (Xhev)                           Albanian male names

tung (short for tungat, tungjatjeta)            hi!  hello!

shok/shoqi                                      friend, mate

qysh                                            how                 

(ti) je                                         you are (familiar form)

vëlla                                           brother/mate
                                 
mirë                                            good, fine,okay 
                                
krejt                                           completely,entirely 
                                
rahat                                           fine                        
        
shëndosh (pronounced: shnosh)                   healthy, in good health

falemnderit                                     thank you 
                           
a                                               (question marker)
                                  
a je lodhë ti?                                   are you okay?

nga pak                                          a little, a bit

ka                                               there is
                                
najsen                                           anything,something
                             
të re  new
                                                                           
jo                                               no                         
       
njiherë                                          at the moment, right now 
                             
hajt pra                                         ok ay then

pra                                              then

shëndet (pronounced: shnet)                      (good) health

mirupafshim                                      goodbye

po                                               yes

shifemi                                          we’ll see each other

prapë                                            again

 

2. Sqarime (Explanations)

a) The standard Albanian word for ‘hello’, tungjatjeta, literally
translating as ‘may your life be lengthened’, is regularly abbreviated in
conversation to either tungat or the more colloquial tung, as in the
conversation above.

b) To address a close friend in a similar way to how one might say ‘mate’ in
English, Albanians tend to use the word shok (literally ‘friend, comrade’)
or the word vëlla, which literally means ‘brother’, although it is more
often than not simply used to refer to a close friend.

c) Kosovar and Macedonian Albanians particularly use a myriad of expressions
for saying ‘how are you?’ or ‘how’s it going?’  As well as the literal qysh
je?, a popular expression is a je lodhë?, literally meaning ‘are you
tired?’, two variations on which are: a je mërzitë? (literally ‘are you
upset?’) and a po plakesh? (literally ‘are you getting old?)  The standard
response to all three is nga pak, i.e. ‘a little’, whether one is
tired/upset/getting old, or not!

d) The word shëndet literally means ‘health’, but it is used as an
expression on its own to mean either ‘(I wish you) good health’, or
‘cheers’, when about to have a drink.

e) Just as the Albanian word for ‘hello’ (tungjatjeta) is actually made up
of a number of words sandwiched together, the word for ‘goodbye’
(mirupafshim) is also made up of several words, literally meaning ‘may we
see each other in good times’.

 

3. Gramatikë (Grammar)

a) The verbs ‘to be’: me qenë, me konë and ‘to have’: me pasë

Although there is a pattern to most verbs in Albanian, the verbs ‘to be’ and
‘to have’, as in many other languages, are irregular, and their present
tense forms in Geg Albanian are given below.  A point to note is that, also
as in many other languages, Albanian does not normally need to use subject
pronouns (‘I, you, he, we etc.’), as verbs have specific endings to mark
which person is doing the action/in the state concerned.  The present tense
forms of jam and kam are as follows: 

 

jam/jem/jom              I am                            
kam/kem/kom            I have

je                            you are                        
ke/ki                         you have

âsht/â                        he/she/it is                    
ka                            he/she/it has

jemi/jena                     we are                         
kemi/kena                 we have

jeni                          you are                        
keni/kini                     you have

janë                          they are                       
kanë                          they have

 

Geg Albanian pronunciation tends to differ from region to region, and the
forms jam and kam above can be pronounced in the three possible ways shown.
 Jemi and jena and kemi and kena are virtually interchangeable alternatives,
although the jena and kena forms tend to be used in less formal registers.

 

b) Expressing ‘you’ in Geg Albanian

Albanian has two forms for the English ‘you’.  Ti, used in the conversation
above, is a familiar form, used to address family, friends, subordinates
etc, and its form in the present tense of the verb ‘to be’ is (ti) je.  Ju
and the verb form jeni are used to address more than one ‘you’, regardless
of how friendly or not the speaker may be with those people, OR as a polite
form used when addressing strangers, superiors or anyone to whom the speaker
wishes to show respect.  A note of caution, however - in practice, Albanians
will quite freely swap between the two, often in the same sentence, and even
the closest of friends can find themselves being addressed as ju one minute,
and ti  the next.

 

c) ‘There is, there are’

The word ka, used in the conversation above, literally means ‘he, she, it
has’, but it is also the translation of the English ‘there is’ or ‘there
are’, as in a ka najsen të re?, ‘is there any news?’  The plural verb form
kanë can also be used to express the equivalent of ‘there are’.

 

d) Expressing a question

Questions in Albanian can either be formed by changing one’s intonation, as
in English, or by prefixing the sentence with the question marker a, hence a
je mirë?, ‘are you okay?’ versus je mirë, ‘you are okay’, and a je lodhë?,
literally ‘are you tired?’, as opposed to je lodhë, ‘you are tired’.

 

4. Ushtrime (Practise)

a) How would you say, ‘hello!  How are you?’

b) Reply that you are fine, and ask ‘how are you?’ using a different
expression.

c) Ask whether there is any news.

d) Reply that, just at the minute, there’s nothing new.

e) End the conversation by saying ‘goodbye, we’ll see each other again’.

f) Translate into English:

 

Jena mirë, falemnderit.

A jeni rahat, shëndosh?

Xhevdeti âsht mirë njiherë.

Po, jem lodhë nga pak.

 

5. Zakone dhe histori (Customs and history)

a) A point to remember when face to face with an Albanian is that Albanians
shake their heads to indicate ‘yes’, and nod their heads for ‘no’!

b) Geg Albanian is the national dialect of the UN-administered province of
Kosovo, the northern and western regions of Macedonia, bordering on Kosovo
and eastern Albania, Montenegro, northern Albania as far south as the
Shkumbin river (including Tirana and Pogradec) and most of the Albanian
diaspora in Europe and the USA. 
Geg is characterised by nasal vowels, monosyllabic words, little
standardisation and a large number of words of Turkish origin, mainly absent
from the Tosk and Arbëresh dialects of southern Albania, Greece and parts of
Italy.  The first recorded sentence ever found in Albanian, dating from a
1462 translation of the Latin baptism service, was in Geg, and Geg formed
the basis of the original standard Albanian language in the 1920s.  A
standardised spelling for written Geg Albanian was also established at
Pristina University in 1964, although it has never been widely applied.

c) All ethnic Albanians, wherever they live, and whatever their official
statehood, consider the Albanian National Anthem, Himni i Flamurit (‘The
Hymn of the Flag’), to be their own.  The Himni i Flamurit, written by
Aleksandër “Asdren” Drenova in the late 19th century, was adopted as the
national anthem of independent Albania in November 1912, but is now sung at
all solemn occasions by ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and Macedonia especially,
as a further affirmation of their separate identity.

d) The Albanian national flag, consisting of the double-headed black eagle
(shqiponja or shkaba dykrenore) on a red background, derives from the banner
of the Albanian national hero, Gjergj Kastrioti-Skënderbeu, known in English
as Skanderbeg, who held the invading Ottomans at bay from the northern
Albanian mountains in the first half of the fifteenth century, until his
death in 1468. 
 
       
Grigor Gatchev
2003-08-23 16:03:27 UTC
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Raw Message
All this is very interesting, but could you, please, just post a link
to some useful Web site instead of spamming soc.culture.bulgaria? All
here will be grateful to you, and the attitude towards your posts will
be better.

Thank you,

Grigor Gatchev
Post by y***@albanian.com
Mësimi i parë
Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege
 
Chris Hughes
Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege. Qëllimi i doracakut të gegnishtes dhe jo të
gjuhës letrare egzistuese âsht i dyfishtë - i pari, thjesht për me mësuë
studentë të huej (dhe kryesisht anglishtfolës) gjuhën e pasun bisedimore të
kosovarëve, preshevarëve, shqiptaro-maqedonasve e tjera, me synim qi ata me
mujtë me i kuptuë gegnishtfolësit, dhe me e respektuë të folmen e tyne.  Dhe
i dyti qëllim âsht për me treguë kjartë qi âsht plotsisht e mundun me nxânë
gegnishten në mënyrë formale, dhe si gjuhë, dhe jo si forma dialektore,
katûndare qi s’ka kurrgjâ për me i ofruë studentit të huej ose akademikut
shqiptar.  Ishalla, k’ejt ata qi janë tue e biseduë të ardhmen e gjuhës
shqipe sot e kësaj dite kanë m’ia kushtuë vëmêndje kontributit mâ të madh qi
gegnishtja, si gjuha e përshkrueme në këtë kurs, mun me i ofruë gjuhës
letrare shqipe.
1. Bisedë (Conversation)
Hysniu: Tung Xhev!
Xhevdeti: Tung shoqi!  Qysh je vëlla?  A je mirë?
Hysniu: Krejt rahat, shnosh jam.  Falemnderit.  A je lodhë ti?
Xhevdeti: Nga pak, vëlla.  A ka najsen të re?
Hysniu: Jo.  Njiherë jo.  Hajt pra.  Shnet.  Mirupafshim!
Xhevdeti: Po, mirupafshim.  Shifemi prapë.
 
 
Fjalorth (Vocabulary)
All the vocabulary presented in these lessons is listed in an Albanian to
English glossary at the end of the book for ease of reference.
Hysni, Xhevdet (Xhev)                           Albanian male names
tung (short for tungat, tungjatjeta)            hi!  hello!
shok/shoqi                                      friend, mate
qysh                                            how                 
(ti) je                                         you are (familiar form)
vëlla                                           brother/mate
                                 
mirë                                            good, fine,okay 
                                
krejt                                           completely,entirely 
                                
rahat                                           fine                        
        
shëndosh (pronounced: shnosh)                   healthy, in good health
falemnderit                                     thank you 
                           
a                                               (question marker)
                                  
a je lodhë ti?                                   are you okay?
nga pak                                          a little, a bit
ka                                               there is
                                
najsen                                           anything,something
                             
të re  new
                                                                           
jo                                               no                         
       
njiherë                                          at the moment, right now 
                             
hajt pra                                         ok ay then
pra                                              then
shëndet (pronounced: shnet)                      (good) health
mirupafshim                                      goodbye
po                                               yes
shifemi                                          we’ll see each other
prapë                                            again
 
2. Sqarime (Explanations)
a) The standard Albanian word for ‘hello’, tungjatjeta, literally
translating as ‘may your life be lengthened’, is regularly abbreviated in
conversation to either tungat or the more colloquial tung, as in the
conversation above.
b) To address a close friend in a similar way to how one might say ‘mate’ in
English, Albanians tend to use the word shok (literally ‘friend, comrade’)
or the word vëlla, which literally means ‘brother’, although it is more
often than not simply used to refer to a close friend.
c) Kosovar and Macedonian Albanians particularly use a myriad of expressions
for saying ‘how are you?’ or ‘how’s it going?’  As well as the literal qysh
je?, a popular expression is a je lodhë?, literally meaning ‘are you
tired?’, two variations on which are: a je mërzitë? (literally ‘are you
upset?’) and a po plakesh? (literally ‘are you getting old?)  The standard
response to all three is nga pak, i.e. ‘a little’, whether one is
tired/upset/getting old, or not!
d) The word shëndet literally means ‘health’, but it is used as an
expression on its own to mean either ‘(I wish you) good health’, or
‘cheers’, when about to have a drink.
e) Just as the Albanian word for ‘hello’ (tungjatjeta) is actually made up
of a number of words sandwiched together, the word for ‘goodbye’
(mirupafshim) is also made up of several words, literally meaning ‘may we
see each other in good times’.
 
3. Gramatikë (Grammar)
a) The verbs ‘to be’: me qenë, me konë and ‘to have’: me pasë
Although there is a pattern to most verbs in Albanian, the verbs ‘to be’ and
‘to have’, as in many other languages, are irregular, and their present
tense forms in Geg Albanian are given below.  A point to note is that, also
as in many other languages, Albanian does not normally need to use subject
pronouns (‘I, you, he, we etc.’), as verbs have specific endings to mark
which person is doing the action/in the state concerned.  The present tense
forms of jam and kam are as follows: 
 
jam/jem/jom              I am                            
kam/kem/kom            I have
je                            you are                        
ke/ki                         you have
âsht/â                        he/she/it is                    
ka                            he/she/it has
jemi/jena                     we are                         
kemi/kena                 we have
jeni                          you are                        
keni/kini                     you have
janë                          they are                       
kanë                          they have
 
Geg Albanian pronunciation tends to differ from region to region, and the
forms jam and kam above can be pronounced in the three possible ways shown.
 Jemi and jena and kemi and kena are virtually interchangeable alternatives,
although the jena and kena forms tend to be used in less formal registers.
 
b) Expressing ‘you’ in Geg Albanian
Albanian has two forms for the English ‘you’.  Ti, used in the conversation
above, is a familiar form, used to address family, friends, subordinates
etc, and its form in the present tense of the verb ‘to be’ is (ti) je.  Ju
and the verb form jeni are used to address more than one ‘you’, regardless
of how friendly or not the speaker may be with those people, OR as a polite
form used when addressing strangers, superiors or anyone to whom the speaker
wishes to show respect.  A note of caution, however - in practice, Albanians
will quite freely swap between the two, often in the same sentence, and even
the closest of friends can find themselves being addressed as ju one minute,
and ti  the next.
 
c) ‘There is, there are’
The word ka, used in the conversation above, literally means ‘he, she, it
has’, but it is also the translation of the English ‘there is’ or ‘there
are’, as in a ka najsen të re?, ‘is there any news?’  The plural verb form
kanë can also be used to express the equivalent of ‘there are’.
 
d) Expressing a question
Questions in Albanian can either be formed by changing one’s intonation, as
in English, or by prefixing the sentence with the question marker a, hence a
je mirë?, ‘are you okay?’ versus je mirë, ‘you are okay’, and a je lodhë?,
literally ‘are you tired?’, as opposed to je lodhë, ‘you are tired’.
 
4. Ushtrime (Practise)
a) How would you say, ‘hello!  How are you?’
b) Reply that you are fine, and ask ‘how are you?’ using a different
expression.
c) Ask whether there is any news.
d) Reply that, just at the minute, there’s nothing new.
e) End the conversation by saying ‘goodbye, we’ll see each other again’.
 
Jena mirë, falemnderit.
A jeni rahat, shëndosh?
Xhevdeti âsht mirë njiherë.
Po, jem lodhë nga pak.
 
5. Zakone dhe histori (Customs and history)
a) A point to remember when face to face with an Albanian is that Albanians
shake their heads to indicate ‘yes’, and nod their heads for ‘no’!
b) Geg Albanian is the national dialect of the UN-administered province of
Kosovo, the northern and western regions of Macedonia, bordering on Kosovo
and eastern Albania, Montenegro, northern Albania as far south as the
Shkumbin river (including Tirana and Pogradec) and most of the Albanian
diaspora in Europe and the USA. 
Geg is characterised by nasal vowels, monosyllabic words, little
standardisation and a large number of words of Turkish origin, mainly absent
from the Tosk and Arbëresh dialects of southern Albania, Greece and parts of
Italy.  The first recorded sentence ever found in Albanian, dating from a
1462 translation of the Latin baptism service, was in Geg, and Geg formed
the basis of the original standard Albanian language in the 1920s.  A
standardised spelling for written Geg Albanian was also established at
Pristina University in 1964, although it has never been widely applied.
c) All ethnic Albanians, wherever they live, and whatever their official
statehood, consider the Albanian National Anthem, Himni i Flamurit (‘The
Hymn of the Flag’), to be their own.  The Himni i Flamurit, written by
Aleksandër “Asdren” Drenova in the late 19th century, was adopted as the
national anthem of independent Albania in November 1912, but is now sung at
all solemn occasions by ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and Macedonia especially,
as a further affirmation of their separate identity.
d) The Albanian national flag, consisting of the double-headed black eagle
(shqiponja or shkaba dykrenore) on a red background, derives from the banner
of the Albanian national hero, Gjergj Kastrioti-Skënderbeu, known in English
as Skanderbeg, who held the invading Ottomans at bay from the northern
Albanian mountains in the first half of the fifteenth century, until his
death in 1468. 
 
       
y***@albanian.com
2003-08-24 11:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
U ARE RIGHT !!!! BUT WHY U ARE POSTING TO SOC.CULTURE.ALBANIAN ?
THANKS ,
YMERM67
Anri Erinin
2003-08-24 16:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Italy's sexual slave trade

Many prostitutes in Italy come from Albania
In the first of two special reports, the BBC's Brian Barron investigates
Italy's clandestine trade in sexual slaves and the Albanian criminals
behind the business.

It is estimated that there could be more than 40,000 foreign prostitutes
on the streets of Italy - and the numbers are increasing.

The streetwalkers venture out every night after 10, on the edge of big
cities like Rome.


Each trip was awful but that was my choice. If I returned to Albania I
was dead.

Prostitute
In the Eor district, they are Albanian or from other former communist
countries.

Most are controlled by Albanian mafia gangsters. A handful have
travelled to Italy through their own efforts.

One streetwalker whose identity must be kept secret recalls her
particular journey.

"I came by boat," she says.

"I was smuggled in. I had tried four times. It was a horrible trip."

"It was winter, cold and raining. It was a terrible risk. I saw dead
people with my own eyes."

"Each trip was awful but that was my choice. If I returned to Albania I
was dead."

"Dead or alive - this was my only choice."


Tarantelli: Women are held in slavery
The former Italian MP, Carol Bebbe Tarantelli, says that the women are
slaves.

"They are brought here," she says.

"Their passports are destroyed often, usually as a matter of fact they
are tortured to break their wills."

"They're moved around from place to place so they don't know where they
are. They don't speak the language."

"They're terrified and they can't escape. They're held in slavery."

Poverty


For many of the girls, the journey began in their Albanian homeland.

In Durres, most people are out of work, surviving on remittances from
relatives abroad, like the girls on the streets of Italy.

In its poverty and human desperation it is typical of countless Albanian
communities.

Once Albania was an all-powerful communist police state. It is now a
country beyond the rule of law.

The police chief of Durres, Colonel Albert Pilo, is having a difficult
time stamping out the smuggling of young girls.


Durres: Lawlessness and poverty prevail
"We have had some success against traffickers in prostitutes," he says.

"We've arrested at least three. But a big problem is what to do with the
girls caught up in the system, especially if they come from outside
Albania."

"The fact is we do not have any organisation for helping them."

"At times we've had to keep the girls in prison because there's nowhere
for them to go."

Dramatic pictures, taken two years ago, show one of the speedboats of
the Albanian mafia being intercepted by Italian security forces.


An Albanian mafia speedboat with its human cargo heads for Italy
It was trying to land a batch of illegal immigrants on Italy's Adriatic
coast.

Boxes of drugs were thrown overboard as the gangsters, travelling at 60
miles an hour, evaded the helicopters and ships trying to encircle them.

On the coast at Lecce, the Italian Justice Ministry, working with a
Catholic charity, has launched another kind of assault on the Albanian
mafia.

In one camp for illegal immigrants, Father Cesari helps run a witness
protection programme for former prostitutes from Albania and Eastern Europe.


Hope for some of the women in the witness protection programme
"The choice of denouncing their pimps is an act of responsibility," he says.

"It's not an easy decision to make. So these girls must have the courage
to do it.

"To cut all ties with the past. By pointing the finger at those who
abuse them there is the chance that some of the guilty will be brought
to justice."

Eighty girls have collaborated. They have been rewarded with the right
to remain in Italy and, when necessary, new identities.

However, 500 declined because they were afraid of the godfathers.
Post by y***@albanian.com
Mësimi i parë
Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege
Chris Hughes
Këto ditë, kur âsht tue u mbajtë seminari i gjuhës shqipe te Universiteti i
Prishtinës, ku akademikë dhe gjuhëtarë kanë me shqyrtuë gjêndjen aktuale të
gjuhës shqipe, dhe bân vaki, ku meritat e gegnishtes kanë me u vû në pah,
thashë mos ishte e udhës me paraqitë këtu mësimin e parë të doracakut tem
mësimor të gjuhës shqipe gege. Qëllimi i doracakut të gegnishtes dhe jo të
gjuhës letrare egzistuese âsht i dyfishtë - i pari, thjesht për me mësuë
studentë të huej (dhe kryesisht anglishtfolës) gjuhën e pasun bisedimore të
kosovarëve, preshevarëve, shqiptaro-maqedonasve e tjera, me synim qi ata me
mujtë me i kuptuë gegnishtfolësit, dhe me e respektuë të folmen e tyne. Dhe
i dyti qëllim âsht për me treguë kjartë qi âsht plotsisht e mundun me nxânë
gegnishten në mënyrë formale, dhe si gjuhë, dhe jo si forma dialektore,
katûndare qi s’ka kurrgjâ për me i ofruë studentit të huej ose akademikut
shqiptar. Ishalla, k’ejt ata qi janë tue e biseduë të ardhmen e gjuhës
shqipe sot e kësaj dite kanë m’ia kushtuë vëmêndje kontributit mâ të madh qi
gegnishtja, si gjuha e përshkrueme në këtë kurs, mun me i ofruë gjuhës
letrare shqipe.
1. Bisedë (Conversation)
Hysniu: Tung Xhev!
Xhevdeti: Tung shoqi! Qysh je vëlla? A je mirë?
Hysniu: Krejt rahat, shnosh jam. Falemnderit. A je lodhë ti?
Xhevdeti: Nga pak, vëlla. A ka najsen të re?
Hysniu: Jo. Njiherë jo. Hajt pra. Shnet. Mirupafshim!
Xhevdeti: Po, mirupafshim. Shifemi prapë.
Fjalorth (Vocabulary)
All the vocabulary presented in these lessons is listed in an Albanian to
English glossary at the end of the book for ease of reference.
Hysni, Xhevdet (Xhev) Albanian male names
tung (short for tungat, tungjatjeta) hi! hello!
shok/shoqi friend, mate
qysh how
(ti) je you are (familiar form)
vëlla brother/mate
mirë good, fine,okay
krejt completely,entirely
rahat fine
shëndosh (pronounced: shnosh) healthy, in good health
falemnderit thank you
a (question marker)
a je lodhë ti? are you okay?
nga pak a little, a bit
ka there is
najsen anything,something
të re new
jo no
njiherë at the moment, right now
hajt pra ok ay then
pra then
shëndet (pronounced: shnet) (good) health
mirupafshim goodbye
po yes
shifemi we’ll see each other
prapë again
2. Sqarime (Explanations)
a) The standard Albanian word for ‘hello’, tungjatjeta, literally
translating as ‘may your life be lengthened’, is regularly abbreviated in
conversation to either tungat or the more colloquial tung, as in the
conversation above.
b) To address a close friend in a similar way to how one might say ‘mate’ in
English, Albanians tend to use the word shok (literally ‘friend, comrade’)
or the word vëlla, which literally means ‘brother’, although it is more
often than not simply used to refer to a close friend.
c) Kosovar and Macedonian Albanians particularly use a myriad of expressions
for saying ‘how are you?’ or ‘how’s it going?’ As well as the literal qysh
je?, a popular expression is a je lodhë?, literally meaning ‘are you
tired?’, two variations on which are: a je mërzitë? (literally ‘are you
upset?’) and a po plakesh? (literally ‘are you getting old?) The standard
response to all three is nga pak, i.e. ‘a little’, whether one is
tired/upset/getting old, or not!
d) The word shëndet literally means ‘health’, but it is used as an
expression on its own to mean either ‘(I wish you) good health’, or
‘cheers’, when about to have a drink.
e) Just as the Albanian word for ‘hello’ (tungjatjeta) is actually made up
of a number of words sandwiched together, the word for ‘goodbye’
(mirupafshim) is also made up of several words, literally meaning ‘may we
see each other in good times’.
3. Gramatikë (Grammar)
a) The verbs ‘to be’: me qenë, me konë and ‘to have’: me pasë
Although there is a pattern to most verbs in Albanian, the verbs ‘to be’ and
‘to have’, as in many other languages, are irregular, and their present
tense forms in Geg Albanian are given below. A point to note is that, also
as in many other languages, Albanian does not normally need to use subject
pronouns (‘I, you, he, we etc.’), as verbs have specific endings to mark
which person is doing the action/in the state concerned. The present tense
jam/jem/jom I am
kam/kem/kom I have
je you are
ke/ki you have
âsht/â he/she/it is
ka he/she/it has
jemi/jena we are
kemi/kena we have
jeni you are
keni/kini you have
janë they are
kanë they have
Geg Albanian pronunciation tends to differ from region to region, and the
forms jam and kam above can be pronounced in the three possible ways shown.
Jemi and jena and kemi and kena are virtually interchangeable alternatives,
although the jena and kena forms tend to be used in less formal registers.
b) Expressing ‘you’ in Geg Albanian
Albanian has two forms for the English ‘you’. Ti, used in the conversation
above, is a familiar form, used to address family, friends, subordinates
etc, and its form in the present tense of the verb ‘to be’ is (ti) je. Ju
and the verb form jeni are used to address more than one ‘you’, regardless
of how friendly or not the speaker may be with those people, OR as a polite
form used when addressing strangers, superiors or anyone to whom the speaker
wishes to show respect. A note of caution, however - in practice, Albanians
will quite freely swap between the two, often in the same sentence, and even
the closest of friends can find themselves being addressed as ju one minute,
and ti the next.
c) ‘There is, there are’
The word ka, used in the conversation above, literally means ‘he, she, it
has’, but it is also the translation of the English ‘there is’ or ‘there
are’, as in a ka najsen të re?, ‘is there any news?’ The plural verb form
kanë can also be used to express the equivalent of ‘there are’.
d) Expressing a question
Questions in Albanian can either be formed by changing one’s intonation, as
in English, or by prefixing the sentence with the question marker a, hence a
je mirë?, ‘are you okay?’ versus je mirë, ‘you are okay’, and a je lodhë?,
literally ‘are you tired?’, as opposed to je lodhë, ‘you are tired’.
4. Ushtrime (Practise)
a) How would you say, ‘hello! How are you?’
b) Reply that you are fine, and ask ‘how are you?’ using a different
expression.
c) Ask whether there is any news.
d) Reply that, just at the minute, there’s nothing new.
e) End the conversation by saying ‘goodbye, we’ll see each other again’.
Jena mirë, falemnderit.
A jeni rahat, shëndosh?
Xhevdeti âsht mirë njiherë.
Po, jem lodhë nga pak.
5. Zakone dhe histori (Customs and history)
a) A point to remember when face to face with an Albanian is that Albanians
shake their heads to indicate ‘yes’, and nod their heads for ‘no’!
b) Geg Albanian is the national dialect of the UN-administered province of
Kosovo, the northern and western regions of Macedonia, bordering on Kosovo
and eastern Albania, Montenegro, northern Albania as far south as the
Shkumbin river (including Tirana and Pogradec) and most of the Albanian
diaspora in Europe and the USA.
Geg is characterised by nasal vowels, monosyllabic words, little
standardisation and a large number of words of Turkish origin, mainly absent
from the Tosk and Arbëresh dialects of southern Albania, Greece and parts of
Italy. The first recorded sentence ever found in Albanian, dating from a
1462 translation of the Latin baptism service, was in Geg, and Geg formed
the basis of the original standard Albanian language in the 1920s. A
standardised spelling for written Geg Albanian was also established at
Pristina University in 1964, although it has never been widely applied.
c) All ethnic Albanians, wherever they live, and whatever their official
statehood, consider the Albanian National Anthem, Himni i Flamurit (‘The
Hymn of the Flag’), to be their own. The Himni i Flamurit, written by
Aleksandër “Asdren” Drenova in the late 19th century, was adopted as the
national anthem of independent Albania in November 1912, but is now sung at
all solemn occasions by ethnic Albanians in Kosovo and Macedonia especially,
as a further affirmation of their separate identity.
d) The Albanian national flag, consisting of the double-headed black eagle
(shqiponja or shkaba dykrenore) on a red background, derives from the banner
of the Albanian national hero, Gjergj Kastrioti-Skënderbeu, known in English
as Skanderbeg, who held the invading Ottomans at bay from the northern
Albanian mountains in the first half of the fifteenth century, until his
death in 1468.
--
Message-ID: <***@mb-m26.aol.com>
If Sobig is really a spamming virus, we really don't need to know
who wrote it, we just need to know who is spamming with it.
(I'm sure they will be happy tell who wrote it during the 'interview'
phase...)
WolfWolf
2003-08-22 15:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
the only one
And who gives a rat's ass???
You!!!
Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
reply.

As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.

WolfWolf
The European
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-25 06:12:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
the only one
And who gives a rat's ass???
You!!!
Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
reply.
As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.
What statements baby?The whole story about me baby is that I asked Ili
something very basic,he didn't answer and in the end YOU answered
(thanks anyway).What's next baby is that Silly keeps posting lectures
of crap&bush-shit
which I easilly tear down.Remember his latest shit about the
Pythagorian theorem?This troll thought that if he proves that it
wasn't discovered by the ancient Greeks,he will thus debunk the
prestige of ancient Greeks.What a looser!
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
Anri Erinin
2003-08-25 09:06:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Fuck you, crossposter!
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
the only one
And who gives a rat's ass???
You!!!
Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
reply.
As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.
What statements baby?The whole story about me baby is that I asked Ili
something very basic,he didn't answer and in the end YOU answered
(thanks anyway).What's next baby is that Silly keeps posting lectures
of crap&bush-shit
which I easilly tear down.Remember his latest shit about the
Pythagorian theorem?This troll thought that if he proves that it
wasn't discovered by the ancient Greeks,he will thus debunk the
prestige of ancient Greeks.What a looser!
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
2003-08-25 12:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
He does it all the time, and the result is clear to see.

WolfWolf
The European
Post by Anri Erinin
Fuck you, crossposter!
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
the only one
And who gives a rat's ass???
You!!!
Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
reply.
As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.
What statements baby?The whole story about me baby is that I asked Ili
something very basic,he didn't answer and in the end YOU answered
(thanks anyway).What's next baby is that Silly keeps posting lectures
of crap&bush-shit
which I easilly tear down.Remember his latest shit about the
Pythagorian theorem?This troll thought that if he proves that it
wasn't discovered by the ancient Greeks,he will thus debunk the
prestige of ancient Greeks.What a looser!
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
sgeorgio2003
2003-08-25 14:48:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anri Erinin
Fuck you, crossposter!
Me????Crossposter????Since when my chum???Dyu have any proofs????Or
just spreading you mud around???And your arguments,man,very
overwhelming!At least you are succint!And what about your manners?And
the lack of imagination?
You are sucha loosa baby!
Post by Anri Erinin
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
the only one
And who gives a rat's ass???
You!!!
Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
reply.
As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.
What statements baby?The whole story about me baby is that I asked Ili
something very basic,he didn't answer and in the end YOU answered
(thanks anyway).What's next baby is that Silly keeps posting lectures
of crap&bush-shit
which I easilly tear down.Remember his latest shit about the
Pythagorian theorem?This troll thought that if he proves that it
wasn't discovered by the ancient Greeks,he will thus debunk the
prestige of ancient Greeks.What a looser!
Post by WolfWolf
WolfWolf
The European
WolfWolf
2003-08-25 11:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by WolfWolf
Post by sgeorgio2003
Post by GreekWolf
Hello, hope this thing will end soon (and I'm sure it'll end)
MAcedonia was never Greek!! Don't be fooled by our politicians, read
history particulary the period 1910-1914 and you'll see why and how
greeks took MAcedonia from Macedonians!
Regards
Dimitris
YES!!!!!!!!At last a Greek who believes that!!!!And I thought I was
the only one
And who gives a rat's ass???
You!!!
Definitely not. The careful reader will be able to distinguish the meaning in each
reply.
As for sources, YOU should first care to back your own statements with reliable data.
What statements baby?The whole story about me baby is that I asked Ili
I think you're wrong here, boy. Ask your questions to alt.play.kindergarten.

WolfWolf
The European
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