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COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History
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hry mdas
2013-11-28 00:39:00 UTC
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http://theologyandsociety.blogspot.com.au/2011/06/commentary-fyrom-cannot-change-facts-of.html

COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History

This week, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) erected a
24-meter-high bronze equestrian statue of Alexander the Great in the central
square of Skopje -- the capital of FYROM -- leading Greece to accuse FYROM
of trying to steal Greece's ancient heritage by claiming the ancient world
conqueror as its own.

The statue was made in Italy and cost FYROM -- one of the poorest nations in
Europe -- about $13 million.

Alexander the Great was born in the town of Pella in the section of northern
Greece that at that time was called -- and is still called today --
Macedonia. FYROM -- which also calls itself Macedonia for short -- became an
independent nation in 1991 with the breakup of Yugoslavia. It borders the
northern Greek territory of Macedonia, so Greece has been emphatic that
FYROM must change its name.

Greece and FYROM have been trying for 20 years to reach a compromise in
agreeing to a new name for FYROM, but this dilemma has still not been
resolved.

Greece is adamant about changing FYROM's name, because it believes that
FYROM has territorial ambitions over Greece's neighboring northern province
of Macedonia.

Greece has retaliated against FYROM for failing to change its name by
successfully blocking FYROM's attempts to join both NATO and the European
Union (EU).

In fact, the EU recently warned Macedonia that -- as a candidate country for
EU membership -- it should not disrespect its neighbor. "Macedonia can lose
its candidate status if it continues to make moves that Greece perceives as
provocation," EU commissioner for enlargement Stefan Fule said.

Indeed, FYROM has been arrogant, provocative, and in a state of historical
denial by displaying a huge statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje.

Nonetheless, this statue -- or even a plethora of additional statues
throughout FYROM -- will never be able to change the well-documented
historical fact that Alexander the Great was born in the northern Greece
territory of Macedonia.
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
2013-11-28 06:09:21 UTC
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Post by hry mdas
COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History
Neither can the former Turkish colony of Greece.
Post by hry mdas
The statue was made in Italy and cost FYROM -- one of the poorest nations in
Europe -- about $13 million.
Peanuts compared to the billions which criminal tax evaders steal from
the state in Greece, made possible by rampant corruption and lack of
ability in Greek tax offices.
Post by hry mdas
Alexander the Great was born in the town of Pella in the section of northern
Greece that at that time was called -- and is still called today --
Macedonia. FYROM -- which also calls itself Macedonia for short -- became an
independent nation in 1991 with the breakup of Yugoslavia. It borders the
northern Greek territory of Macedonia, so Greece has been emphatic that
FYROM must change its name.
Why? Does France want Great Britain to change its name because of
Brittany in France? Or vice versa? No. These countries were enemies
for hundreds of years, and even today sympathy is not great, but they
are not that stupid.
Post by hry mdas
Greece and FYROM have been trying for 20 years to reach a compromise in
agreeing to a new name for FYROM, but this dilemma has still not been
resolved.
Because the Greek position is stupid.
Post by hry mdas
Greece is adamant about changing FYROM's name, because it believes that
FYROM has territorial ambitions over Greece's neighboring northern province
of Macedonia.
First, this is bullshit. Second, how would changing the name affect
this, even if it were true?
Post by hry mdas
Greece has retaliated against FYROM for failing to change its name by
successfully blocking FYROM's attempts to join both NATO and the European
Union (EU).
Greece has abused obsolete statutes within EU and NATO.
Post by hry mdas
Indeed, FYROM has been arrogant, provocative, and in a state of historical
denial by displaying a huge statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje.
What's the problem? Was King Arthur English? Of course, people would
say in England. Some would say he is the very embodiment of England.
Yet his claim to fame was fighting against the Angles and Saxons. Why
can he be recognized as English? Because, in any other context except
right-wing Greek politics, the history of a modern country includes
other peoples who inhabit the same territory. Buy a book on the history
of France and it will include Charlemagne, who to the French is French,
but of course this was Karl der Große (Charles the Great) who spoke
German. It will include the Celt Vircingetorix.
Post by hry mdas
Nonetheless, this statue -- or even a plethora of additional statues
throughout FYROM -- will never be able to change the well-documented
historical fact that Alexander the Great was born in the northern Greece
territory of Macedonia.
Which no-one disputes.

These days, Greece is in the news because it has now become clear that
Greece LIED about its finances to get into the common currency. Now,
many people hate Greece because it abuses its status as a member of the
common currency to avoid bankruptcy due to Greek incompentence and
corruption. There is no need for Macedonia to do anything about Greece;
it will die of its own accord.

The fact that Greece seems afraid of "one of the poorest countries in
Europe" again shows the stupidity of the Greek position on this matter.
Panayiotis
2013-11-29 11:49:08 UTC
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Post by hry mdas
COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History
[Snip}
Post by hry mdas
Alexander the Great was born in the town of Pella in the section of northern
Greece that at that time was called -- and is still called today --
Macedonia. FYROM -- which also calls itself Macedonia for short -- became an
independent nation in 1991 with the breakup of Yugoslavia. It borders the
northern Greek territory of Macedonia, so Greece has been emphatic that
FYROM must change its name.
Why? Does France want Great Britain to change its name because of
Brittany in France? Or vice versa? No. These countries were enemies
for hundreds of years, and even today sympathy is not great, but they
are not that stupid.

[Snip]

============================================================
Hey, ignorant,
There is no country in the EU by the name of "Great Britain".
And that, because France objected to that name.
Please, make a Google search: EU countries, or visit the site listed below
and take a look at the very last country name.
http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/

Regards from Thessaloniki to all people of good will.

Panayiotis
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
2013-12-01 12:29:13 UTC
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Post by Panayiotis
There is no country in the EU by the name of "Great Britain".
Right, because it is part of the United Kingdom, which also includes
Northern Ireland, which is not part of the island of Great Britain.
Post by Panayiotis
And that, because France objected to that name.
Bullshit. Reference?
Panayiotis
2013-12-02 22:10:59 UTC
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Post by Panayiotis
There is no country in the EU by the name of "Great Britain".
Right, because it is part of the United Kingdom, which also includes
Northern Ireland, which is not part of the island of Great Britain.
Post by Panayiotis
And that, because France objected to that name.
Bullshit. Reference?
============================================================
You brought up the subject of Brittany, Britain and France.
Be my guest to enlighten us.
Your own words! Do you recognize them?
QUOTE
Why? Does France want Great Britain to change its name because of
Brittany in France? Or vice versa? No. These countries were enemies
for hundreds of years, and even today sympathy is not great, but they
are not that stupid.
UNQUOTE

Panayiotis
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
2013-12-03 18:28:43 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by Panayiotis
There is no country in the EU by the name of "Great Britain".
Right, because it is part of the United Kingdom, which also includes
Northern Ireland, which is not part of the island of Great Britain.
Post by Panayiotis
And that, because France objected to that name.
Bullshit. Reference?
============================================================
You brought up the subject of Brittany, Britain and France.
Be my guest to enlighten us.
Your own words! Do you recognize them?
QUOTE
Why? Does France want Great Britain to change its name because of
Brittany in France? Or vice versa? No. These countries were enemies
for hundreds of years, and even today sympathy is not great, but they
are not that stupid.
UNQUOTE
Elementary error of logic. One cannot prove a negative. That is why
"innocent until proven guilty". I cannot prove that Venezuela is not
planning to attack Panama. No-one can. Someone who makes a claim has
to prove the positive claim. So, if you think France objects, the
burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.
choro
2013-12-04 04:22:46 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by Panayiotis
There is no country in the EU by the name of "Great Britain".
Right, because it is part of the United Kingdom, which also includes
Northern Ireland, which is not part of the island of Great Britain.
Post by Panayiotis
And that, because France objected to that name.
Bullshit. Reference?
============================================================
You brought up the subject of Brittany, Britain and France.
Be my guest to enlighten us.
Your own words! Do you recognize them?
QUOTE
Why? Does France want Great Britain to change its name because of
Brittany in France? Or vice versa? No. These countries were enemies
for hundreds of years, and even today sympathy is not great, but they
are not that stupid.
UNQUOTE
Elementary error of logic. One cannot prove a negative.
BULLSHIT! Of course you can prove a negative. X did not fly to country Y
on date Z. Well, is this a negative or not? But if X is known to have
spent that day playing the bouzouki at a particular venue, then it DOES
PROVE THAT HE COULD NOT HAVE FLOWN TO COUNTRY Y if that country is half
way across the world!

I know there are idiots in this world but I did not expect to find them
on Usenet. On the other hand *I might be the idiot* for not expecting to
find idiots on Usenet!
--
choro
*****

That is why
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
"innocent until proven guilty". I cannot prove that Venezuela is not
planning to attack Panama. No-one can. Someone who makes a claim has
to prove the positive claim. So, if you think France objects, the
burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.
choro
2013-12-04 04:20:31 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by Panayiotis
There is no country in the EU by the name of "Great Britain".
Right, because it is part of the United Kingdom, which also includes
Northern Ireland, which is not part of the island of Great Britain.
Post by Panayiotis
And that, because France objected to that name.
Bullshit. Reference?
============================================================
You brought up the subject of Brittany, Britain and France.
Be my guest to enlighten us.
Your own words! Do you recognize them?
QUOTE
Why? Does France want Great Britain to change its name because of
Brittany in France? Or vice versa? No. These countries were enemies
for hundreds of years, and even today sympathy is not great, but they
are not that stupid.
UNQUOTE
Elementary error of logic. One cannot prove a negative.
BULLSHIT! Of course you can prove a negative. X did not fly to country Y
on date Z. Well, is this a negative or not? But if X is known to have
spent that day playing the bouzouki at a particular venue, then it DOES
PROVE THAT HE COULD NOT HAVE FLOWN TO COUNTRY Y if that country is half
way across the world!

I know there are idiots in this world but I did not expect to find them
on Usenet. On the other hand *I might be the idiot* for not expecting to
find idiots on Usenet!
--
choro
*****

That is why
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
"innocent until proven guilty". I cannot prove that Venezuela is not
planning to attack Panama. No-one can. Someone who makes a claim has
to prove the positive claim. So, if you think France objects, the
burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.
Panayiotis
2013-12-04 12:36:43 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by Panayiotis
There is no country in the EU by the name of "Great Britain".
Right, because it is part of the United Kingdom, which also includes
Northern Ireland, which is not part of the island of Great Britain.
Post by Panayiotis
And that, because France objected to that name.
Bullshit. Reference?
============================================================
You brought up the subject of Brittany, Britain and France.
Be my guest to enlighten us.
Your own words! Do you recognize them?
QUOTE
Why? Does France want Great Britain to change its name because of
Brittany in France? Or vice versa? No. These countries were enemies
for hundreds of years, and even today sympathy is not great, but they
are not that stupid.
UNQUOTE
Elementary error of logic. One cannot prove a negative. That is why
"innocent until proven guilty". I cannot prove that Venezuela is not
planning to attack Panama. No-one can. Someone who makes a claim has
to prove the positive claim. So, if you think France objects, the
burden of proof is on you to demonstrate it.
==========================================
Phil,
1. Did you make good grades in Math, Algebra and Trigonometry?
2. Suggest you read about De Gaulle, France, Britain. Politics!

Be happy,
Panayiotis
Nashton
2013-12-06 03:40:13 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by hry mdas
COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History
Neither can the former Turkish colony of Greece.
Grow up.
No NATO, no EU.

Later.
Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
2013-12-06 19:51:34 UTC
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Post by Nashton
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by hry mdas
COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History
Neither can the former Turkish colony of Greece.
Grow up.
No NATO, no EU.
Children taunting each other in kindergarten and calling each other
names are acting more maturely than the Greek government on this issue.

Opinion has changed. Now that Greek bankruptcy has made it apparent
that Greece lied to gain entrance to the Euro, the population of Europe
will make sure that its agenda is not determined by convicted cheats.
If the EU and NATO want Macedonia, and Macedonia wants EU and NATO, then
that will happen. Greece has already lost its right to veto on this
issue.

Maybe some politicians or courts will force the issue. Maybe the rest
of Europe will just wait until Greece dies off.
Nashton
2013-12-06 22:37:37 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by Nashton
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by hry mdas
COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History
Neither can the former Turkish colony of Greece.
Grow up.
No NATO, no EU.
Children taunting each other in kindergarten and calling each other
names are acting more maturely than the Greek government on this issue.
And you sound like the boy that cries "He started it first."
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Opinion has changed. Now that Greek bankruptcy has made it apparent
that Greece lied to gain entrance to the Euro, the population of Europe
will make sure that its agenda is not determined by convicted cheats.
You're delusional. It was amongst many countries that fudged their books
(See Mario Drahgi). They are still in the NATO and the EU and as long as
your country keeps up the charade, no EU, no NATO for you.
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
If the EU and NATO want Macedonia, and Macedonia wants EU and NATO, then
that will happen. Greece has already lost its right to veto on this
issue.
Really? When did this happen? In fact, even Bulgaria has joined Greece
in vetoing FYROM's entry into the EU.

You really, really need to check your "facts" before advertising your
stupidity.
Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Maybe some politicians or courts will force the issue. Maybe the rest
of Europe will just wait until Greece dies off.
Or maybe the Albanian population in the FYROM will overtake the pseudos
and the issue will die on its own.

Greece has been through much worse than this in its long and glorious
history to die off because of pressure from international lenders.


Are all of you FYROMians really this stupid?

LOL!
Nashton
2013-12-24 03:23:44 UTC
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Post by Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
Post by hry mdas
COMMENTARY: FYROM Cannot Change the Facts of History
Neither can the former Turkish colony of Greece.
No wonder there is no solution possible.

In the meantime, beg for inclusion into NATO and the EU.

And then, beg some more.
v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
2013-12-09 20:27:00 UTC
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*+-In fact, the EU recently warned Macedonia that -- as a candidate country for
*+-EU membership -- it should not disrespect its neighbor. "Macedonia can lose
*+-its candidate status if it continues to make moves that Greece perceives as
*+-provocation," EU commissioner for enlargement Stefan Fule said.

How'bout that, there is some sanity left in the world! Finally!

I have lived in Whitestone NY (on Long Island but in NYC) since
1965. Across Long Island Sound (porthmus) there is a "Whitestone Cinemas" in
the Bronx. You cannot imagine how many people think I live in the Bronx
because of that! I once had to redirect a 911 fire call because they were
sending the fire engine to the Bronx. Luckily I thought to double check and
ask the operator where they were sending it from so I could correct
her. Else, the car on fire in front of my house would have blown up the Con
Ed transformer on the pole above it, and would have come down on my house.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
++
2014-01-02 04:45:28 UTC
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Post by v***@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
*+-In fact, the EU recently warned Macedonia that -- as a candidate country for
*+-EU membership -- it should not disrespect its neighbor. "Macedonia can lose
*+-its candidate status if it continues to make moves that Greece perceives as
*+-provocation," EU commissioner for enlargement Stefan Fule said.
How'bout that, there is some sanity left in the world! Finally!
I have lived in Whitestone NY (on Long Island but in NYC) since
1965. Across Long Island Sound (porthmus) there is a "Whitestone Cinemas" in
the Bronx. You cannot imagine how many people think I live in the Bronx
because of that! I once had to redirect a 911 fire call because they were
sending the fire engine to the Bronx. Luckily I thought to double check and
ask the operator where they were sending it from so I could correct
her. Else, the car on fire in front of my house would have blown up the Con
Ed transformer on the pole above it, and would have come down on my house.
- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
So, by your reasoning, it would be a good idea to direct any necessary fire truck to the Macedonian province in Greece so they wouldn't automatically assume the fire truck was to go to Macedonia?

The commentator on how Macedonia should behave has an appropriate last name, btw, however he spells it
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