FYROM is finally Republic of North Macedoia

[Dennis]

What does anyone here think about thid?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia#Prespa_Agreement,_NATO,
_and_EU_path
(Accessed Feb 3, 2019)

It looks like the dispute has finally been settled.

Dennis

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Dennis
What does anyone here think about thid?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia#Prespa_Agreement,_NATO,_and_EU_path
(Accessed Feb 3, 2019)
It looks like the dispute has finally been settled.

Officially, it has finally been settled. Considering that Greek
politicians who voted in favour of it have received death threats, I
wouldn't be surprised if some Greek terrorists start killing people in
an attempt to revoke the change.

There was a dispute, and it was solved because Macedonia agreed to a
name change---and that was not enough for many Greeks.

Let's put that in perspective. In Belgium there is a province called
Luxembourg, and just across the border there is a country called
Luxembourg. This bothers no-one, in neither country. A similar
situation exists with Brittany and Great Britain, both Bretagne in
French. People troubled by this: 0.

With regard to the idea that as long as the name "Macedonia" is (part
of) the name of the Slavic country, said country could make claims to
territories in the Greek province of Macedonia, that is just bullshit.
First, the Macedonian government does not make such claims. Second,
even if they did, why should they go away due to a name change?

And while I'm on the topic, of course the inhabitants of Slavic
Macedonia can see themselves in the tradition of Philip and Alexander.
In every other case, the history and culture is the history and culture
of a region. Look at England. It took its name from the Angles, who
came along with the Saxons and the Jutes. Before them were Picts,
Celts, Romans, and after them were Vikings and Normans. The "history of
England" is the history of all of these. Similarly, Charlemagne is
regarded in France as a Frenchman, though of course he spoke an ancestor
of Modern German, rather than a Romance language.

It seems that only the Greeks have a problem with history like this.
Why is that? Often one grasps at straws to try to defend one's honour
if none of it is left. It must be a pain to live in Greece and be
reminded of some of the great accomplisnments in its history---more than
2000 years ago. Modern Greece? A country which lied in order to join
the common currency, then got itself bailed out of debt by the other
members of the Eurozone. Sad, very sad. But that's how things are
today in the Former Turkish Colony of Greece.

[Dennis]

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by Dennis
What does anyone here think about thid?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia#Prespa_Agreement,
_NATO,_and_EU_path (Accessed Feb 3, 2019)

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)

Post by Dennis
It looks like the dispute has finally been settled.

Officially, it has finally been settled. Considering that Greek
politicians who voted in favour of it have received death threats, I
wouldn't be surprised if some Greek terrorists start killing people in
an attempt to revoke the change.
There was a dispute, and it was solved because Macedonia agreed to a
name change---and that was not enough for many Greeks.
Let's put that in perspective. In Belgium there is a province called
Luxembourg, and just across the border there is a country called
Luxembourg. This bothers no-one, in neither country. A similar
situation exists with Brittany and Great Britain, both Bretagne in
French. People troubled by this: 0.

HOWEVER, the Flemish in Belgium are unhappy about how they were treated
in pre-WWII Belgium, and have made many noises about leaving. Were it
not for Brussels, Belgium's largest city but a largely French-speaking
exclave inside Flemish-speaking territory, I suspect that Flanders and
Wallonia would have separated a long time ago.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
With regard to the idea that as long as the name "Macedonia" is (part
of) the name of the Slavic country, said country could make claims to
territories in the Greek province of Macedonia, that is just bullshit.
First, the Macedonian government does not make such claims. Second,
even if they did, why should they go away due to a name change?

Yes.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
And while I'm on the topic, of course the inhabitants of Slavic
Macedonia can see themselves in the tradition of Philip and Alexander.
In every other case, the history and culture is the history and
culture of a region. Look at England. It took its name from the
Angles, who came along with the Saxons and the Jutes. Before them
were Picts, Celts, Romans, and after them were Vikings and Normans.
The "history of England" is the history of all of these. Similarly,
Charlemagne is regarded in France as a Frenchman, though of course he
spoke an ancestor of Modern German, rather than a Romance language.

Yes.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
It seems that only the Greeks have a problem with history like this.

I suspect that there are other countries with sinmilar grievances.

AIUI, the Macedonian-naming controversy is due to the the Balkan Wars
and the preceding Macedonian independence movements, such as IMRO,
which is considered the grandfather of all modern terrorist
organizations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_nationalism

However, that was a century ago.

More generally, there is the Megali Idea of putting all Greek-speaking
ares back into Greece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megali_Idea

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Why is that? Often one grasps at straws to try to defend one's honour
if none of it is left. It must be a pain to live in Greece and be
reminded of some of the great accomplisnments in its history---more
than 2000 years ago

I would think so. However, even in antiquity, the Greeks have always
had to live with having had a day of glory that they can never equal
again.

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Modern Greece? A country which lied in order to
join the common currency, then got itself bailed out of debt by the
other members of the Eurozone.

Goldman-Sachs did that for them. .

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Sad, very sad.
But that's how things
are today in the Former Turkish Colony of Greece.

No one calls the USA, the former British Colony of America!

I believe that, even today, the Greeks call themselves "Romans".

Dennis

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

Post by Dennis

Post by Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
Let's put that in perspective. In Belgium there is a province called
Luxembourg, and just across the border there is a country called
Luxembourg. This bothers no-one, in neither country. A similar
situation exists with Brittany and Great Britain, both Bretagne in
French. People troubled by this: 0.

HOWEVER, the Flemish in Belgium are unhappy about how they were treated
in pre-WWII Belgium, and have made many noises about leaving. Were it
not for Brussels, Belgium's largest city but a largely French-speaking
exclave inside Flemish-speaking territory, I suspect that Flanders and
Wallonia would have separated a long time ago.

Perhaps. However, despite the problems between the ethnic groups in
Belgium, members of parliament do not receive death threats.

Post by Dennis
AIUI, the Macedonian-naming controversy is due to the the Balkan Wars
and the preceding Macedonian independence movements, such as IMRO,
which is considered the grandfather of all modern terrorist
organizations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_nationalism
However, that was a century ago.

Indeed.