======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================
Post by Panayiotis======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
Post by Panayiotis======================================
"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."
(Strabo VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])
======================================"pavel"
Post by goguPost by PanayiotisPost by goguPost by LyngosAnd..................he is GREEK from a father born in FLORINA with
origins in the village of ACHLADA .........................L.
A renegade Greek, a yenitsaros...
As a matter of fact there are many FYROM-ians with Greek blood but they
are fed with slavic propaganda and they are hiding it...
Poor bastards.
For our friend, Zhivko,
Can we then think of FYROM PM Gruevski being a sub-Saharan?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
But seriously now it is sad that many Greeks of the pro-civil war era took
this pro-slavic stance as a reaction to the maltreatment of the central,
dictatorial state and government of Metaxas towards the bilingual Greeks...-
Here the great question is: "What is a Greek?"
In your fashion, Greeks are Ahmed Hadzhiouglou from Dimotika
(Didimotihon), and Isak Perets from Solun (Thessaloniki)...
They are NOT Greeks, but Greek citizens!
My intention was to state that it would be easier to be achieved
a MUTUALLY acceptable solution of the name issue with Greece
if the government is of the pro-European centre-right party VMRO-DPMNE
with leader Nikola Gruevski, in comparison with the case when
hypotetically the government would be from the leftist (former
Titoist)
party SDSM with leader Mrs Shekerinska. Even the fact that Mr Nikola
Gruevski has a lot of relatives in Lerin (Florina) and he does not
hide that he likes Greek music gives support to that claim... It
is pityful that the agreement could not be reached before the
Bucharest summit, and the government of Nikola Gruevski
has resigned. But in the new Parliamentary elections in June
is expected VMRO-DPMNE to take more seats in the Parliament.
================================================
Pavel,
1. The question is not what we Greeks are, but what makes a Slav Skopian a
"Macedonian"!
2. Remember when you said that time is running in your favor? You said that
you had plenty of time, something around 20 years.
Well, you (not you personally) miscalculated and did not take into account,
what the desires of Uncle Sam might be.
Panayiotis
Panayotis,
What makes a man/woman from the Republic of Macedonia Macedonian is
that he/she
lives in the geographical area named Macedonia. If you cannot believe,
COME and SEE
the archeological site in Bitola of the town founded by the father of
Alexander the Great -
king Philip II. There is a very good archeological museum there that
is worth the visit. I
am quite sure that if the Greek foreign affairs minister Mrs Dora
Bakoyanis visit
the Republic of Macedonia (because until now she refused the visit),
she would be
brought there to see the things with her own eyes.
=========================================
Pavel,
1. I live in Thessaloniki (my ancestors lived here through the ages), the
heart of Macedonia, and, there come some Slavs, who claim to be
"Macedonians", the true and only "Macedonians"! Where did you inherit all
these rights? From Czar Samuil, the king of the Bulgarians? And, what
percentage of the true Ancient Macedonia belongs to FYROM? One study shows
that 70% of the Ancient Macedonia belongs to Greece, 18% to FYROM and 12% to
Bulgaria. I am not sure if I intermingled the percentages of Bulgaria and
FYROM. Some say that only 10%-5% belongs to FYROM.
Post by PanayiotisThe point that "Historical Macedonia" and the borders thereof cannot
be concretely defined.
They can and with great accuracy. I pointed you to the histories of
Macedonia by Hammond and Errington. Now, if you know better than
these emiment historians, fine with me!! For all intents and
purposes, you cannot refer to administrative regions of the Roman
Empire as specific borders of a given ethnic group. They were not.
So, if you want to define the real area inhabited by the ancient
Macedonians, the consensus borders of the state between the reigns of
Alexander I and the later Antigonidae is as good as it gets. They
really delineate the area occupied by people who described themselves
as Macedonians. The same with Athens or Sparta. We have a good idea
of the area covered by these groups (as well as others). I am not
sure why you have a problem with this.
3. As far as being "Macedonians" because you inhabit an area that has the
ruins of a city founded by Philip II (Herakleia Lynkystis), there are
hundreds of cities built by Macedonians in Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Iraq,
Iran, Pakistan, Egypt etc, etc, but they don't claim to be Macedonians.
Except some tribes in Pakistan (like the Kalash), but they claim to be
descendants of the soldiers of Alexander the Great. But, the Slavs of FYROM
came to this area 1.000 years later and there were no Alexander's soldiers
around!
4. I believe you that "There is a very good archeological museum there that
is worth the visit". But, visit yourself and have your politicians visit the
sites of Pella, Aigai (Vergina), Dion, Thessaloniki. The site at Bitola will
look like a gypsy tent compared to grandiose buildings and palaces of the
above sites in Greece. Afterall, where can one see the burial remnants of
Philip II, the father of Alexander the Great? Of course not in Bitola!
5. I am afraid, if Dora is "brought there to see the things with her own
eyes", she will not be impressed. She is a Cretan and in Crete we have
Knossos and Phaistos, dated since the Minoan times.
Have a Happy Easter and don't eat too much lamb.
Panayiotis
Panayotis,
1) and 2) How much percents of the ancient Macedonia - that is
questionable. But out of
question is that a PART of the ancient Macedonia is into the Republic
of Macedonia,
so that state has the right to bear its name. Of course without to
monopolise
the name "Macedonia" as the predominant part of it is into Greece. But
on the
other hand the Greeks also ought NOT to monopolise the name
"Macedonia".
3) Yes, but the town of Bitola has been built from the Macedonian
tribe of
Lyncesti, and because of that took the name Heraclea Lyncestis. That
tribe
was native here (aboriginal). That is the difference with the town
built from
Alexander the Great in Egypt for example.
4) Please visit Bitola and then speak. I would compare some Greek
towns with
gypsy camps...
5) Dora Bakoyannis is a shame for the Greek diplomacy. She REFUSED a
visit in
Skopje, in spite that she visited Sarajevo and Tirana for example in
the region.
By the way WHY is she called "Bakoyannis" as a male? As far as I know
by the
rules of the Greek language she has to be called "Bakoyanni" as a
female. Or
maybe she is a male woman - lesbian?
A happy Easter for all. The civilised world celebrated that event a
month ago.
Because of the Greeks we are also celebrating that event in a wrong
date.
====================================================
Pavel,
"1) and 2) How much percents of the ancient Macedonia - that is
questionable".
The percentages of Ancient Macedonia belonging to Greece, Bulgaria and FYROM
you said are questionable? Then perhaps you know the real ones. Or the ones
you have been taught in school. Tell us. Don't be afraid.
"But out of question is that a PART of the ancient Macedonia is into the
Republic of Macedonia, so that state has the right to bear its name".
Yes, part of. In fact a very small part of Ancient Macedonia belongs to
FYROM. So does a small part of Europe (Eastern Thrace), which belongs to
Turkey. Would you consider Turkey a European country, geographically?
"Of course without to monopolise the name "Macedonia" as the predominant
part of it is into Greece".
You are very, very correct ("the predominant part of it is into Greece").
According to the Treaty of Bucharest, the percentage of Macedonia, as
described by the Treaty at that year (1913), which was acquired by Greece
was 52% (51,7% exactly). But, do your countrymen know that? Is this taught
in your schools?
"But on the other hand the Greeks also ought NOT to monopolise the name
"Macedonia".
Look here who's talking! Who is trying to monopolize?
It is your Macedonists that claim to be the only Macedonians. You and nobody
else!
Have you not seen Skopian propaganda and schoolbook maps, which incorporate
to FYROM Greek areas from NW Macedonia to the Eastern parts up to Kavala, as
well as Halkidiki and Mt. Olympus?
Greece's stand on the name issue is very clear: A name mutually acceptable,
composite (including the name/adjective Macedonia/n, with a geographical
connotation/distinction, for all uses (in and out of your country).
"3) Yes, but the town of Bitola has been built from the Macedonian
tribe of
Lyncesti, and because of that took the name Heraclea Lyncestis. That
tribe
was native here (aboriginal). That is the difference with the town
built from
Alexander the Great in Egypt for example.
4) Please visit Bitola and then speak. I would compare some Greek
towns with
gypsy camps..."
"5) Dora Bakoyannis is a shame for the Greek diplomacy. She REFUSED a visit
in Skopje, in spite that she visited Sarajevo and Tirana for example in the
region".
And because "She REFUSED a visit in Skopje, in spite that she visited
Sarajevo and Tirana for example in the region", she "is a shame for the
Greek diplomacy"?
Isn't this the "diplomatic" language tha your Miloshoski is using? Or is it
your PM Gruevski? You have been deeply brainwashed!
"By the way WHY is she called "Bakoyannis" as a male? As far as I know by
the rules of the Greek language she has to be called "Bakoyanni" as a
female".
I don't give a hoot how she is called. In Greece she is being called
"Bakoyanni". It is you foreigners that write her name that way.
BTW, don't go around showing off your expertise in the Greek language. Your
own Ilinden was not smart enough, he tried it and he got fired.
"Or maybe she is a male woman - lesbian"?
I don't know much about homosexual behaviors. Do you?
"A happy Easter for all. The civilised world celebrated that event a month
ago".
Yourselves, excluded?
"Because of the Greeks we are also celebrating that event in a wrong date".
Which should be, when?
Do you know the rules for celebrating Easter established by decree of the
1st Ecumenical Synod (325 A.D.)?
Panayiotis